"Also keep in mind that these United flights turn right back around and go back to where they came from. "
Not if they divert to a different airport.
I was an AMT for 41 years and was ETOPS qualified but not on the 777. A predeparture check has to be accomplished by qualified AMT. There wouldn't be anybody at ITO qualified on a United 777. Even engine oil would be a problem. Engine oil is pretty specific to certain engines and operators so the engine oil couldn't be serviced.
"turn around and go back to California even if the plane is up to 2/3’s of the way to Hawaii."
It's 1/2 way where it would turn around, depending on the reason the airplane would probably run out of fuel if it turned around at 2/3rd.
If an ETOPS plane has an engine failure it is mandatory that it land at the closest airport. That's Hilo and every time that happens the airplane is here for at least a week until the proper equipment and personnel are flown in. keep in mind that these United flights turn right back around and go back to where they came from.
I could go on all day with dozens of reasons why it was better to go to HNL or OGG.
01-20-2024, 09:49 PM (This post was last modified: 01-20-2024, 09:51 PM by HiloJulie.)
(01-20-2024, 08:51 PM)Obie Wrote: "Also keep in mind that these United flights turn right back around and go back to where they came from. "
Not if they divert to a different airport.
I was an AMT for 41 years and was ETOPS qualified but not on the 777. A predeparture check has to be accomplished by qualified AMT. There wouldn't be anybody at ITO qualified on a United 777. Even engine oil would be a problem. Engine oil is pretty specific to certain engines and operators so the engine oil couldn't be serviced.
"turn around and go back to California even if the plane is up to 2/3’s of the way to Hawaii."
It's 1/2 way where it would turn around, depending on the reason the airplane would probably run out of fuel if it turned around at 2/3rd.
If an ETOPS plane has an engine failure it is mandatory that it land at the closest airport. That's Hilo and every time that happens the airplane is here for at least a week until the proper equipment and personnel are flown in. keep in mind that these United flights turn right back around and go back to where they came from.
I could go on all day with dozens of reasons why it was better to go to HNL or OGG.
You know what would make this banter go more smoother and have more benefits for the readers?
Reading a persons entire post instead of replying to only one snippet of that post.
Clearly, you missed the part of my post about diverting to Hilo where I said that United would send the Kona crew over to Hilo. That would include the required AMT’s.
Also, the part about these United flights turning around and going back to where they came from, in this particular case, BOTH the diverted 777 and 737 “puddle jumped” from Oahu and Maui to Kona and returned to Denver and SFO.
As for you going on and on about ETOPS I am sure you could. The distance from California to Hawaii is the longest overwater flight path with no ditch point other than California or Hawaii. As such, as well as the curvature of the earth and those nasty jet streams, any flight from California to Hawaii that suffers an engine out or some other emergency would return to California up to the 2/3’s of the way point, most likely going to SFO. And yes, if at the time of the emergency, past that 2/3’s point, Hilo would be the go place.
Believe it or not, SFO is closer to Hawaii than LAX!
The following factors and others may be relevant in determining whether or not an airport is suitable:
• Airplane configuration, weight, systems status, and fuel remaining,
• Wind and weather conditions en route at the diversion altitude,
• Minimum altitudes en route to the diversion airport,
• Fuel burn to the diversion airport,
• Airport nearby terrain, weather and wind,
• Runways available and runway surface condition,
• Approach navigation aids and lighting available,
• Availability of crash, rescue and firefighting equipment,
• Facilities for passenger and crewmember disembarkation and accommodations, and
• Pilot’s familiarity with the airport.
The last item is the gotcha !
UAL doesn't operate 777's into ITO and would need to fly fam flights and have training for all of the flt crew members.
01-21-2024, 01:22 AM (This post was last modified: 01-21-2024, 01:25 AM by terracore.)
The only way to get the passengers off a 777 in Hilo might be down the emergency slide. The jetways at ITO can't accommodate an aircraft that large and the tallest stairs at the airport were owned by FedEx and they sent them back years ago. Using the emergency slide almost always results in minor injuries, they would only divert a 777 here if there were no other options. Not to mention, using the emergency slide renders the aircraft inoperable for pax until it can be replaced for about $50k.
When FEMA flew in supplies for the 2018 eruption they had to send them to Kona and have it trucked over because ITO didn't have the equipment to get the crew off or unload the aircraft it came on.
You all have convinced me that the Hilo Airport is just to "rinky-dinky" and "itsy-bitsy" to serve any purpose beyond what it currently is!
At any event, it can be here in the event of a dire emergency.
Remember TWA 235?
Yes, Hilo can be used in an emergency. The closure of Kona airport was not an emergency. No one has claimed Hilo isn't available as an emergency alternative airport.
You all have convinced me that the Hilo Airport is just to "rinky-dinky" and "itsy-bitsy" to serve any purpose beyond what it currently is!
At any event, it can be here in the event of a dire emergency.
Remember TWA 235?
Hilo can handle most of the air traffic if Kona had an extended outage. Over half the airport is currently mothballed but they still service the escalators, elevators, and baggage handling systems in the ghost part of the airport. I don't know how long it would take TSA to add additional checkpoints but the equipment required to service larger aircraft could start arriving quickly if needed. I don't know if there are any facilities to handle international passengers or if the old hardstands they used to park the heavy aircraft from Hilo's glory days are still useable and obviously the parking situation would need to be addressed. I've seen the old abandoned parking lots between the airport and Leilani Ave. They're old but look useable. I think the old parking lots on the other side of the airport got fenced in when they expanded the perimeter fence and they cut down that big beautiful old banyan tree. They tore down all the old cargo buildings a few years ago along with the old terminal building (across the street from the pool), so the air cargo would need a temporary solution, but the footprint of the airport has the space. Probably half the new cargo building is vacant or being used for storage, so some of that could be ramped up immediately. I haven't seen the commuter terminal in a few years but last I saw it was mostly empty.
A friend of ours works for the bus company (Roberts). They don't have enough drivers and the ones they do have are working overtime. So bussing the pax from Hilo to Kona isn't as easy as it sounds. The buses might be available, but the drivers might not be. Imagine the irony if they had to fly bus drivers in from the other islands.
At one point both Aloha and Hawaiian Airlines had passenger service to the Waimea airport. I don't know what type of aircraft can land there now. I've only been there once or twice, it's like a ghost airport. Well maintained but nothing happening. Mokulele has a few flights per day to Kahului. If Kona did have an extended closure some of the smaller aircraft at least could be diverted there.
