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Insurance shock
#51
Glad to hear you lined up insurance you can live with.  It's always something and especially with Hell's Cargo.  One day my "account rep" called me and said something like, "if you have a Xth account with us you would get Y" and I said something like "wow OK" like I'll think that over, good to know, etc.

A few weeks later a credit card that I never applied for arrived in the mail.
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#52
So now that I'm nearing the end of Dung Boo breaking up with me, here's the almost final tally:

Last year's Dung Boo's policy: $641 (this likely would have gone up if they didn't cancel me). Standard insurance plus structure-only hurricane.

USAA: $604- standard insurance only.

Laulima: $365- hurricane, structure only (the "bank's interest" policy).
Laulima: $454- hurricane/matching USAA coverage.

Previously I wasn't aware that Laulima offered a policy to match my USAA coverage during a hurricane.
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#53
https://mauinow.com/2024/08/07/gov-green...ce-crisis/

Governor signs emergency proclamation for insurance... for condos.
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#54
Hawaii taxpayers on the hook for insuring private property? What is this, communist China? ;)?

There is a storm a-brewin' though when states try to low-ball the actual actuaries' assessed costs for providing insurance or the recognition that some properties are increasingly uninsurable. It might help to consider how this has played out for other states like Florida that is dealing with mounting insurance costs and insurers fleeing the state due to the impacts of climate change.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articl...ce-problem
"At a time when climate change is making storms more severe and frequent, the amount of residential real estate parked in harm’s way is only increasing. Each time a storm levels part of the state, developers sweep in to redevelop the land into even pricier homes, some of which are protected by Citizens [state insurer] at below-market rates. Lawmakers’ attempt to expand Citizens’ footprint to cover more expensive homes will deepen the moral hazard problem, and the reluctance among private insurers to participate in the market."
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#55
(03-11-2024, 03:22 AM)Amrita Wrote: I am considering becoming self insured and just dropping it all together.  I may try to negotiate but they didn't have any space like car insurance to adjust coverage.
I'm wondering what the tradeoffs are for not buying volcano fire insurance. First, no mortgage lender will give you a loan without the HPIA insurance, and this would mean your owning the house outright.
The question then becomes, could you get a fire insurance policy that covers damage caused by electrical, kitchen fires, or arson? Insurance companies are like betting parlors. They hate to lose. Thus, what kind of policies can you actually get without HPIA? Storm insurance, theft, whatever? Who likes to live dangerously?
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#56
Who likes to live dangerously?
Everyone who lives here in Hawaii, obviously :)

Going to quote this article extensively as it's informative and important to the future of insurance in Hawaii. I beg the indulgence of the overseers of moderation.

Green blasts State Farm for refusing to settle Maui claims
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2024/08/2...ui-claims/
Instead of addressing sea-level rise and climate change, Gov. Josh Green now wants income from a proposed visitor impact fee to help the state provide its own insurance to victims of future disasters following the Aug. 8, 2023, Maui wildfires.

Green called out the insurance industry’s “terrible, terrible greed” for holding up a proposed $4.037 billion “global settlement” that would resolve over 650 claims and lawsuits in the aftermath of the wildfire that killed 102 people and destroyed nearly 4,000 structures, most of them homes.
...
He praised local attorneys for being willing to give up the right of their insurance company clients to sue those ultimately responsible — including the state — in order to reach a settlement because “it was for the good of the community” by getting settlement money into the hands of Maui victims over three years, beginning in 2025.

But Green repeatedly told the Honolulu Star-­Advertiser editorial board on Wednesday that he blames mainland lawyers representing State Farm Insurance for demanding to be able to sue to recoup their insurance payouts.
...
Among several names, he called State Farm “greedy” and “ruthless” and more interested in profits than helping Maui victims become “whole.”

He accused the company of wanting to pursue lawsuits to maintain “massive profits” and “giant profits.”
...
“Holding up recovery is a very large deal for me as governor and I’m going to push hard,” Green said. “They have an opportunity to do right by us.”

State Farm representatives did not immediately respond to a request for comment Wednesday.

As Hawaii tourism numbers continue to climb following the COVID-19 pandemic, state legislators are expected to again consider the possibility of charging tourists a special fee that was originally intended to offset their impacts on the environment and help the state respond to climate change.

The idea remains popular in a state of 1.4 million people who pushed back against the record-setting 10 million tourists who visited just before the pandemic hit in 2020.

Last session, legislators liked the idea of a new tourism fee in concept but could not agree on how much to charge — or how — and pledged to revisit the idea when the next session begins in January.

Now Green wants to use the potential income to help the state borrow money to provide its own disaster insurance for local residents and businesses through a “captive insurance” program he wants to develop on a large scale.
...
So far, over 160 insurance companies have paid out $2.3 billion in claims to Maui victims, with expectations of another $1 billion in payments.

State Farm has been involved in each step of mediation that led to the tentative “global settlement” on Aug. 2, Green said.
...
The insurance industry initially wanted $65 billion, then $30 billion, $12 billion and then $7 billion in the settlement, Green said.
...
Under the proposed settlement, Hawaiian Electric would pay $1.99 billion, Kamehameha Schools would pay $872.5 million and the state would pay around $750 million. Amounts by Maui County and three other defendants — West Maui Land Co., Spectrum Oceanic LLC and Hawaiian Telcom — have not been disclosed, but add up to about $400 million.

“Mainland attorneys (representing the insurance industry) want to claw back 40% of the total settlement,” Green said.
...
The state has joined plaintiffs’ attorneys in asking Maui’s 2nd Circuit Chief Judge Peter Cahill to ask the state Supreme Court to enforce Cahill’s ruling preventing insurance companies from pursuing damages directly from Hawaiian Electric, the state, Kamehameha Schools and Maui County.

Cahill is scheduled to consider the request Friday.
...
Not reaching a settlement would lead to protracted court battles of five to seven years, Green said, and likely would bankrupt Maui County and Hawaiian Electric.

“The state would have to bail out the county and come up with a new energy model,” he said.
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Asked if he’s worried that insurance companies will leave Hawaii if the Supreme Court rules against them, Green said “we know they’re going to do it anyway because they’re already doing it.”

In Hawaii island’s Puna District, the last insurance company writing homeowner policies in Puna’s Lava Zones 1 and 2 announced it was pulling out of the market because of the ongoing threats of hurricanes, tsunamis and volcanic eruptions.

So Green wants a new way for the state to provide insurance for future disaster victims because, he said, “it’s already a broken system.”
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#57
Several salient points come to mind:

1. Announcing the $4 billion arrangement as if it were a done deal was perhaps unwise. From the New York Times at https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/02/us/ma...ement.html :

"The plaintiffs and defendants subsequently agreed to settle without including the insurers. Plaintiffs will have 90 days to reach an agreement with the insurers on the division of proceeds or obtain a court order barring the insurers from recovering outside the global settlement."

2. Trying to shield the grossly incompetent Maui county government is a particularly bad optic given that they continue to stonewall and refuse to release investigative findings. But hey, they're all good old boys, so they have to stick together.

3. In reference to State Farm and other insurance companies leaving the state, Green said “we know they’re going to do it anyway because they’re already doing it.” Yes, that's true as far as it goes, but tell me how heaping verbal abuse onto one of the remaining major players is going to help. By trying to prevent them from recovering liability based losses, Green will only accellerate the trend. Who wants to do business in a state where negligence, incompetence, and obfuscation are shielded from consequences?
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#58
Who wants to do business in a state where negligence, incompetence, and obfuscation are shielded from consequences?
Those who also like to live dangerously? (aka not insurers)

CivilBeat's article about the 600pg ATF report being held up by the Maui Fire Department until they release their own report. «tin foil hat»Seems likely the report's publication is being withheld contingent on the (increasingly precarious?) settlement arrangements and the litigation that should be starting in November? «/tin foil hat»

Hawaii develops tourism, tourism produces carbon dioxide, carbon dioxide creates more destructive storms, storms make wind, wind fuels fires, fires unleash devastation, devastation requires a tax on tourism, a tax on tourism provides property insurance dependent on tourism, so Hawaii develops tourism, and so it goes...
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#59
(08-29-2024, 06:02 PM)ironyak Wrote: Who likes to live dangerously?
Everyone who lives here in Hawaii, obviously Smile

Under the proposed settlement, Hawaiian Electric would pay $1.99 billion, Kamehameha Schools would pay $872.5 million and the state would pay around $750 million. Amounts by Maui County and three other defendants — West Maui Land Co., Spectrum Oceanic LLC and Hawaiian Telcom — have not been disclosed, but add up to about $400 million.
How is Kam schools going to pay that huge amount ($872,500,000)? From a cursory knowledge of the Bishop estate, it has an estimated value of $11.2 billion, with a 10% interest in Goldman Sachs. Follow the money, bro, and you will find the pot at the end of the rainbow. If they attempt to punt their financial obligations to an insurer, it will be the last policy they get for the next decade.

Quote:After the fire, an inspection of the Kamehameha Schools land found that Kamehameha had failed to properly maintain firebreaks it had been ordered to create three years before, according to the filing.

The notorious estate, which tries to maintain a lifetime grip on its assets with leasehold properties, could convert many to fee simple properties with lender financed loans. I would recommend that they get their student body working on clearing land to prevent future wild fires. Good exercise for young folks, who typically spend too much time playing video games.
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#60
(09-02-2024, 11:37 PM)BlackAkita Wrote: If they attempt to punt their financial obligations to an insurer..

The insurers deserve nothing. They made deals to insure, got paid upfront, and if they can't cope with their losses too bad.
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