Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Hawaiian Acres the day after this brochure came out:

I like:

“Portions now abound with hapu and ohia, both with commercial value.”

Big money in the 3 acre fern & tree industry!

[Obie]

"Many HPP Owners never agreed to being HPPOA members. How could they? HPPOA never told Owners, as they are supposed to, that owners do not have to be members. "

This is ancient history.
The name of this association is now HPPOA, none of the other names matter anymore.
Hawaiian Paradise Park Owners Association.

It is an association of people who own property in HPP.

Hawaiian Paradise Park
Census-designated place in Hawaii

Owners' Association: The group of people who make the rules and decisions for a condo or neighborhood with houses. It's like a club that all the OWNERS belong to, and they work together to keep everything running smoothly. It's usually called an "association" and can be a nonprofit organization.

Unless you can write a new definition and get it published, I'm going to go with" You don't know what the heck you are talking about."

[Patricia]

"Unless you can write a new definition and get it published, I'm going to go with" You don't know what the heck you are talking about."

Actually, Obie, I do know what I am talking about.

In 2014, when HPPOA was still kinda-sorta publishing the Conch, like they are supposed to, they were stating FOR ALL TO KNOW:
"A property owner in HPP is automatically a member of HPPOA unless membership is declined in writing. Payment of road maintenance is an obligation of ownership, not of membership."

I am in fact, looking at a copy of that 2014 Conch now. And no, I am not sharing it with you, or Oda, or the board. It SHOULD be on the HPPOA website- along with the pages and pages of the members/owners bylaws committee meeting notes (from 2014 to 2022) that seem to have been scrubbed. Meeting minutes that SHOW the members/owners bylaws committee was not "moribund" and had to try to fight off board obstruction for years.

I actually do know what I am talking about. And there are reams and reams of HPPOA (and yes even PHH) paperwork to prove it.

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"It seems like you're suggesting that HPPOA has deliberately ignored court orders, which isn't accurate."

KP,  yes PHH (HPPOA) did ignore court orders. It is evident in old court documents (a lot of non-compliance going on). Whether PHH (HPPOA) did this deliberately or not, that would have to be proven. But PHH (HPPOA) fought the changes they were supposed to have made, and never copped to having NOT done what was ordered. They just whined that they were being picked on, as usual.  

In addition, HPPOA's non-compliance has continued for decades.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

when HPPOA was still kinda-sorta publishing the Conch, like they are supposed to,

With road maintenance fees?
Was The Conch a road?

If we read back in this thread will it say anywhere that road maintenance fees are only for road related expenses?

[Patricia]

"If we read back in this thread will it say anywhere that road maintenance fees are only for road related expenses?"

I believe the answer to your question is that it has been stated somewhere in this thread at one point (or maybe even 2, or 3). 

The answer is also in the bylaws, listed several times, under different sections:
Road maintenance is not to be commingled with non-road money
Road maintenance is to be used solely for road maintenance
And on, and on....

[Obie]

I believe he asked if the Conch was a road.

I know you want it printed and mailed out 3 times a year at a cost of $18,000 per year just for postage.

How do you justify that ?

[HiloJulie]

"...yes PHH (HPPOA) did ignore court orders. It is evident in old court documents (a lot of non-compliance going on). Whether PHH (HPPOA) did this deliberately or not, that would have to be proven. But PHH (HPPOA) fought the changes they were supposed to have made, and never copped to having NOT done what was ordered. They just whined that they were being picked on, as usual."

"In addition, HPPOA's non-compliance has continued for decades."

In a nutshell, you are more or less stating that this has been a vast underhanded conspiracy within HPPOA (and its predecessors) that has gone on for decades.

Has there ever been a Board of Directors of HPPOA and (its predecessors) that has not been a part of this vast underhanded conspiracy as well as not being "corrupt," "renegade," illegal," "incompetent," "wrong," "stupid," "dumb," etc. etc.?

Upon election of a new Board, are the newly elected members taken into a secret back room where the speaker is always in the dark, surrounded by others in black suits, all in the dark with a bright light in the face of each new member and forced to agree to comply with this vast underhanded conspiracy and keep it top secret? (Like when a new POTUS is shown the proof of the aliens at Area 51)

This has all the makings of a top selling new book! Where is a good author when we need one?

[Patricia]

"Upon election of a new Board, are the newly elected members taken into a secret back room where the speaker is always in the dark,"

I haven't witnessed that, so can't attest to it one way or the other.

I am not a big conspiracy theorist believer. Mostly people, organizations, etc., who are bent on doing things they aren't supposed to do, attack that "problem" by just doing whatever they can get away with- no conspiracy needed.

The real problem is that old boards do not educate new boards. So, old court docs, court orders, resolutions, policies, etc., don't get handed down. Resulting in not so much board members being in "a secret black room" and "always in the dark," but more like a group of the blind leading the blind.

---

I believe he asked if the Conch was a road.

I know you want it printed and mailed out 3 times a year at a cost of $18,000 per year just for postage.

How do you justify that ?

"How do you justify that?"

Obie, I do not have to justify the Conch or how much it costs to mail it out at all. That is HPPOA’S problem and something HPPOA agreed to do as part of a court settlement. 

How does HPPOA justify no longer billing members (not owners) for membership dues?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

I believe he asked if the Conch was a road.

I did ask if the Conch was a road. I didn’t get an answer just a rationalization. There’s a difference.

[Patricia]

"I did ask if the Conch was a road. I didn’t get an answer just a rationalization."

It is obvious the Conch is not a road- yes?

I would guess, that your question has more to do with how the mailing of it is paid for?

Since the Conch is not a road, then it should be paid for with non-road money (just as the original Conch in 1972, and all subsequent others which were mailed to members, until recently were). The fact that HPPOA is now required to send the Conch to all Owners, because HPPOA sued owners to "compel" them to pay road fee money, is not the fault of owners.

Guess HPPOA needs to start charging those membership dues again.