Starlink Internet

[TomK]

I don't know that geosynchronous matters much when it looks like this:

(Hawaii is the center of the map, and each white dot is a Starlink satellite)



Here's the app if anybody is interested in zooming in and watching them move around.

https://satellitemap.space/

[...]

The problem with geosynchronous satellites is that the latency is so bad the connection is unusable for things like VOIP, gaming, skype, etc.

My concern is if and when there is a collision. Geosynchronous satellites won't care; they're way beyond being hit by Starlink. Those of you who have to do risk assessments will know what I'm talking about. The chance of a collision in low Earth orbit is very small, but the impact is extraordinarily high. The chance of a collision is now a little higher than before, but the impact of such an event hasn't changed.

[terracore]

For sure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome

[TomK]

Precisely.

[Punatang]

Terracore I'm guessing you have the answer to this:  Why is the upload so much slower than he download? Is it the gravity? 

[terracore]

Terracore I'm guessing you have the answer to this:  Why is the upload so much slower than he download? Is it the gravity? 

There's actually a lot of reasons for this.  In the old days of dial-up, the only type of "high speed" internet available to most consumers was satellite, but the end-user terrestrial dishes lacked the ability to upload anything, so the consumer needed to maintain a dial-up connection to their servers to provide the data upload necessary to make the internet work.  The download speeds were amazingly fast for their time, but all of the upload was handled by copper wires.

When broadband finally happened, most people's first experience was through their cable TV provider.  Cable TV technology was primarily a one-way service.  Nobody was transmitting video from their TV to the cable company.  The internet worked the same way, very little of the available bandwidth was allocated to uploads, and almost all of it was used for packet communication.  In fact, the upload speeds weren't much better than dial-up.  Nobody cared much, because nobody was uploading huge files.  If you wanted to run a web server, you couldn't do it off your cable TV connection.

By the time fiber rolled out, the industry "standard" was to allocate 50% of the download speed to uploads.  if you had a 100 Mbs connection, your upload speed was usually limited to 50Mbs.  But it was full-duplex, so both of them could go full throttle at the same time.  It was only a few years ago (4 or 5?) where providers started allocating as much to uploads as downloads.

So the industry has a standard of allocating resources in this manner.  As far as Starlink goes, it may have the capability to match upload and download speeds (I don't know) but it's reasonable to assume that since most people consume much more data than they contribute to the internet, the upload speeds are a representation of the limit of the available bandwidth the network has.  (If they increase the upload speeds, the drag on the system might decrease download speeds, which is the opposite of what most people would want).  Alternatively, it could be a limitation of the hardware.  Maybe a different or larger dish would be required.  Musk likes to play online games so he's more interested in latency, and it does take a minimum amount of upload speed for low latency, and apparently Starlink's upload is "fast enough" as is.  Like I said, most people consume data. At times, Netflix uses almost 10% of the nation's download internet capacity.  But virtually nobody uploads video to netflix. 

All that being said, I wanted to post my experience using Starlink yesterday.  We were at remote location where the cell internet was almost zero for several hours and I still have 40GB to burn on the Starlink for my plan so I decided to take it with me.  It performed as I expected (very well) and as I was putting it in the trunk of the car to leave, just before I turned it off, I wanted to see what the performance would be like in my trunk.  Not exactly a clear view of the sky.  It was orientated perpendicular to "aligned" and only about 20% of the dish was outside the trunk.  The rest was obscured inside of it.  My d/l speed was still 72 Mbs.

[Punatang]

I knew you would have an informative take and thanks for the personal starlink story.  Our fiber is "symmetrical" with UP and Down speeds exceeding 800mbs.  Every other service we have, or have had, has the up/down disparities as you mention.  I thought maybe Starlink should be more like fiber but I guess not.  I love when the power goes out and my fiber keeps on ticking on backup power.  Hey! What was the name of the outfit that sent you that wheel-less backup power gizmo?  I can't find that thread.

[terracore]

Maybe I was talking about the DJI Power 1000? I used it in the aforementioned Starlink post to power the Starlink.

[Punatang]

Yes, I think it was it's own thread but I couldn't find it.  Apologies for detouring this one.  Do you like that 1000 now that you've had it a while?  It seems like DJI is the only company willing to ship to Hawaii with that type of product.  Is $549 a fair price delivered?

[terracore]

$549 delivered is cheaper than what I paid, but that's to be expected the way that LiFEPO4 batteries are falling in price. I do like the unit, though I haven't used it that much yet. There have been a lot of changes and price drops in these types of units since I bought mine about 8 months ago. I've heard that there is a good one at the Costco in Kona, but I don't know anything about the brand, price, availability, or specs.

The last administration was hell-bent on banning DJI drones from being sold in the USA, and that could potentially extend to other DJI products like this power unit, since one of it's intended functions is fast-charging drone batteries. It is unknown if the ban might directly or indirectly prevent DJI from fulfilling warranty obligations, so if any of these things are cause for concern, you might want to consider a different brand. I already have DJI drones and accessories so I'm already invested in their ecosystem. Somebody who isn't might be better off waiting or choosing something else.

"1. Countering CCP Drones Act
Overview: The Countering CCP Drones Act is a legislative proposal aimed at restricting DJI drones in the U.S. by adding DJI to the Federal Communications Commission’s (FCC) Covered List. This would prevent new DJI drones from operating on U.S. communications infrastructure, effectively banning their sale and use for new models.
Status: The bill passed the U.S. House of Representatives in September 2024 with bipartisan support. It is currently under consideration in the Senate, where it could be included in the 2025 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). If enacted, it would block future DJI drone sales but would not affect drones already in use.


Concerns: Proponents cite national security risks, alleging that DJI drones could transmit sensitive data to the Chinese government. Critics, including DJI and drone operators, argue that the claims are unsubstantiated and that the ban would harm industries reliant on DJI technology, such as agriculture, public safety, and infrastructure inspection.



2. Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act (UFLPA) and Customs Hold
Overview: In October 2024, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) began blocking imports of some DJI drones under the UFLPA, which aims to prevent goods produced with forced labor from entering the U.S. The hold was based on concerns that DJI products might be linked to forced labor practices in China’s Xinjiang region.
DJI’s Response: DJI refuted these claims, stating that it has no manufacturing facilities in Xinjiang and complies with international labor standards. The company is working with CBP to resolve the issue, but the customs hold has caused delays in product availability, particularly for models like the Air 3S.

Impact: Commercial users have expressed concerns about supply chain disruptions, as no U.S.-made alternatives currently match DJI’s performance and price range.


3. Commerce Department Blacklist
Overview: DJI was added to the U.S. Department of Commerce’s Entity List in December 2020, restricting its access to U.S. technologies due to alleged ties to human rights abuses and the Chinese military. This blacklist does not ban sales outright but limits DJI’s supply chain and product development capabilities.
Implications: While consumers can still purchase DJI products, the blacklist has led to increased scrutiny and challenges for DJI in maintaining its market dominance.



4. Department of Defense (DoD) Blacklist
Overview: The U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) has blacklisted DJI, citing it as a “Chinese military company” posing potential national security threats. This blacklist, formalized in 2022, prohibits DoD personnel from using DJI drones and extends to other federal agencies in some cases.
Impact: Federal agencies and contractors are barred from using DJI drones, leading to operational disruptions for entities like public safety agencies that rely on DJI technology.



5. State-Level Bans
Examples: States like Florida and Arkansas have imposed bans on DJI drones for state agency use, following federal guidelines. These bans have led to significant financial losses, as agencies must replace DJI fleets with more expensive, less capable alternatives.
Impact: Public safety agencies, such as police and fire departments, have faced challenges, with Florida estimating a $200 million cost to replace grounded DJI drones.


6. Geofencing Removal and Security Concerns
Recent Developments: In January 2025, posts on X reported that DJI removed geofencing from its drones, allowing them to fly over restricted U.S. airspace. This change has heightened security concerns, as it could enable unauthorized flights over sensitive areas.


Response: The removal of geofencing has fueled arguments for stricter bans, with some lawmakers and officials citing it as evidence of DJI’s potential threat to national security.


7. Industry and Consumer Impact
Market Dominance: DJI controls over 70% of the U.S. drone market, making bans disruptive for consumers and industries. Alternatives like Skydio and Autel Robotics exist, but they are often more expensive or less capable.


Innovation: Bans could stifle innovation, as DJI has been a leader in drone technology. However, some argue that bans could encourage U.S. companies to develop competitive alternatives.


Public Safety: Agencies like fire departments and search-and-rescue teams rely on DJI drones, and bans could hinder their operations, potentially endangering lives."

[Punatang]

Thanks TC.  There is a new feature on the Costco app in beta testing but it works for the Kona store.  You can tap warehouse at the bottom of the screen and search items at your chosen warehouse.  Very useful for those of us contemplating  a trip to the hot side that is motivated by specific Costco treasures.