Big Island Organizations & Programs Losing Funding

[HiloJulie]

I would once again like to thank Ironyak for accurately stating the truth and reality of this thread:

I'm going to do the somewhat odd (and apparently unpopular thing) and defend HiloJulie on this thread as she is actually providing useful information and discussing the thread's topic. She also appears to have a grasp of basic math, science, and economics, unlike the MAGA/libertarian/ancap simpletons cheering on the destruction, pain, and suffering (which they seem to mistakenly believe will spare them).

Also quoting something Moderator 2 so accurately and brilliantly posted once in another thread, however, since that thread has been locked, I can only cut and paste what was said this way:

"If I had to choose between a root canal without anesthetic and rereading this thread from start to finish I’d take the root canal.  Even if I didn’t need one."

Gosh, one would think that wanting to discuss the impacts of the federal funding cuts as it relates to Puna, Hilo, The Big Island and Hawaii would not be so difficult.

At any event, carry on!

[Obie]

"MAGA/libertarian/ancap simpletons"

So anyone disagreeing with Julie belongs to either one or all of these groups. Not much room for discussion here.

Do we get to choose ? I had to look up what ancap means so I guess Simpleton best fits me.
I'm headed out to buy a red ball cap with a big S on it so you can spot me in the wild.

[HiloJulie]

"MAGA/libertarian/ancap simpletons"

So anyone disagreeing with Julie belongs to either one or all of these groups. Not much room for discussion here.

Do we get to choose ? I had to look up what ancap means so I guess Simpleton best fits me.
I'm headed out to buy a red ball cap  with a big S on it so you can spot me in the wild.

I was not the one who said that. 

But to be fair, I will once again partially quote something Ironyak also said, that's so fitting:

...and given the lack of basic reading skills around here that's saying a lot!

[Obie]

I would think by copying and pasting Ironyak's previous posts, that you agree with what he posted so you are implying that I am all of those things he posted.

You don't have to actually state it.

[ironyak]

As I see my words being tossed around, figured it's worth a quick reply.

Did HiloJulie post excessively? Obviously, yes. Did she overquote to the point of making threads hard to read? Obviously, yes. Did she engage in some sort of back and forth banter then delete the thread? Only Wao knows apparently, but anyone and everyone who spends their Saturday night in a petty squabble on Punaweb needs to find some better purpose, any purpose really, for their life.

That said, was she actually engaged in discussing this thread's topic and providing related information - I would say so. Her mistake, IMO, is that she actually thought that if she just provided enough sources, enough logic, yet more words, she could convince some of the more truculent posters to accept reality. She hasn't yet learned that you can't reason people out of a belief they didn't reason themself into.

Obie - So anyone disagreeing with Julie belongs to either one or all of these groups. Not much room for discussion here.
But you're not here for a discussion Obie - you're here to boldly state your opinion and then when it's shown (repeatedly) to be factually incorrect, to just gish-gallop off to another brash assertion. Your inability/unwillingness to acknowledge when you're wrong is a sign of acting in bad faith and not interested in actually discussing the topic or learning anything from others. You want a conversation, then actually engage in one, instead of shouting (!) your opinions and then running to the next one when your hot takes, like your right-wing rag of a source, are shown to be BS. Simple enough for you to understand? ;)

When people are posting conspiracies (THEY are out to get you - fill in the blank with your preferred target) and rejoicing in their neighbors losing their business ("Paybacks have only just begun") I would hope PunaWeb would tolerate some pushback on such nonsense, if only for the bystander to better understand that some of their community lives in pockets of deep unreality (it's Puna, duh) but that some of those beliefs lead them to support and celebrate the suffering of those around them. Buckle up because it's going to get messy.

Durien Fiend - Hawaii Public radio says: "We’ll have more details on this story (Hakalau jobs) Monday on The Conversation at 11 a.m. on HPR-1."
Related link for those actually interested in The Conversation. ;)

[Wao nahele wahine]

[quote="ironyak" pid="354353" dateline="1741633198"]
As I see my words being tossed around, figured it's worth a quick reply.

Did HiloJulie post excessively? Obviously, yes. Did she overquote to the point of making threads hard to read? Obviously, yes. Did she engage in some sort of back and forth banter then delete the thread? Only Wao knows apparently, but anyone and everyone who spends their Saturday night in a petty squabble on Punaweb needs to find some better purpose, any purpose really, for their life.

_____
Welcome back, Ironyak.


It was a heated disagreement between HiloJulie and another poster.  I'm not typically up at that hour when this happened, but I do occasionally have insomnia. That is how I happened to come across the ongoing heated disagreement. So, to the best of my knowledge there are three people (HiloJulie, other poster, and me) who know details about the disagreement.

ETA: Added clarification. I have nothing more to say about this.

Looking forward to seeing more middleground than battleground.

[Obie]

"Obie - you're here to boldly state your opinion and then when it's shown (repeatedly) to be factually incorrect, to just gish-gallop off to another brash assertion. "

When I try to discuss anything you and Julie blow me off and call me a bunch of names.

This is part of one of your posts.
"MAGA/libertarian/ancap simpletons"

It's in reference to anyone who doesn't agree with your viewpoint.

Is it a fact or an opinion ?

Our latest non discussion had to do with 10 trees in Waikoloa Village that were estimated to cost $75,000. to cut down.

You posted a couple of long winded responses and the bottom line is you started calling me names again.

It's not my opinion that it was going to cost $75,000 and HELCO stated they would be cut down.

[TomK]

It was a heated disagreement between HiloJulie and another poster. 

I'm not sure "heated" is the right word. However, as I've said before, I won't post anything about a banned poster as they cannot defend themselves. On the other hand, I don't think the "heated" argument in the now-deleted post had much to do with someone being banned.

[ironyak]

Wao nahele wahine - I'm not typically up at that hour when this happened, but I do occasionally have insomnia.  That is how I happened to come across the ongoing heated disagreement.
Yeah, I too have seen a few wild late-night PunaWeb conversations over the years. Don't really care about the details on this one, just noting that if a poster has reached the point that they think late-night PunaWeb squabbles are the best use of their time, they should seek help, or just go to sleep, stargaze, stare at the wall, etc, as all would be a more worthwhile activity IMO.

Wao nahele wahine - Looking forward to seeing more middleground than battleground.
Not quite sure what this means, but it reminds me of the quote from author A. R. Moxon - “Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man. You take a step towards him, he takes a step back. Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man.”

The middle ground is often a fallacy, especially when facts are concerned. (If some people claim millions of dollars were spend making mongooses in Hawaii transgender, and it's shown zero dollars were actually spent, the truth isn't found by compromising that hundreds of thousands of dollars were spent, as a totally random example).

Obie - "MAGA/libertarian/ancap simpletons". It's in reference to anyone who doesn't agree with your viewpoint. Is it a fact or an opinion ?
Punaweb has a handful of posters that state far-right talking points and alt-right conspiracy theories often with the blatantly false sources and logic that are trivial to disprove. Unsurprisingly, these same posters have been shown repeatedly to not understand basic math, science, economics, nor to grok the material they purport to have read. As such, there is plenty of evidence to back up that claim.

Apparently you include yourself in that group, as you post articles from right-wing sources that refers to everyone that lost a house in Lahaina as Hawaiians (as opposed to residents of Hawaii, whatever could be the difference right?) and you already have the red cap and all? There are actually demonstrable facts in the world, not just garbage-in/garbage-out opinions, Obie.

Obie - You posted a couple of long winded responses and the bottom line is you started calling me names again.
That you consider a few paragraphs "long winded" helps explains why the facts seem to keeping sliding off the old grey matter without leaving much of an impression.

Obie - It's not my opinion that it was going to cost $75,000 and HELCO stated they would be cut down.
So if you read the couple paragraphs previously quoted, both sources have HECO stating that the project to remove the trees in Waikaloa is NOT included in the two projects already started that HECO is going to pay for. HECO has stated that "Even without federal support, we will continue to work on funding opportunities for planned projects impacted by the change in federal policy" such as the "Waikōloa Village project and eight others." That means new funding is being sought, not that HECO has committed to providing funding for the work to be completed.

If you have a source that says HECO has committed that the the trees are absolutely 100% going to be cut down, please do share, because that is not what has been communicated by those directly involved with the project last I heard.

[Wao nahele wahine]

Ironyak,

By middleground I meant that I would like to see two opposing sides trying to understand the other point of view. That doesn't mean that it is possible or true in all situations. As shown in the sky color example given in your fallacy link. There are times when the sky does appear yellow. I don't interpret middle ground on sky color then to mean that the sky is green. I interpret the middle ground for the yellow sky person to agree the sky is blue most of the time, and for the blue sky person to understand that the sky under certain situations can appear yellow.

I'm sure I am not using the correct terminology, and hopefully my explanation made some sense. I am a bit rushed right now. I have two long days of flying ahead of me.