The Bicker Board

[kalakoa]

Maybe some people just don't have anything better to do with their time.

[leilanidude]

What makes selling that home impossible? Unless buying an unpermitted home, what permitting does a new home buyer have to go through? And if someone is selling an unpermitted home in Puna for 250K, in my opinion, the person buying that home is the real problem, not the state.
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Nearly impossible may be more correct. No bank will loan on an unpermitted home. They may loan on the value of the property/land itself and the value of the permitted parts of the home, but if that house is completely unpermitted and the price is $250k, you might only get approved for the $50k value of the land. In other words, you are paying cash for the house. Most folks in the lower brackets that would be buying a house for $250k cannot pay cash for it.

[Durian Fiend]

What makes selling that home impossible? Unless buying an unpermitted home, what permitting does a new home buyer have to go through? And if someone is selling an unpermitted home in Puna for 250K, in my opinion, the person buying that home is the real problem, not the state.
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Nearly impossible may be more correct. No bank will loan on an unpermitted home. They may loan on the value of the property/land itself and the value of the permitted parts of the home, but if that house is completely unpermitted and the price is $250k, you might only get approved for the $50k value of the land. In other words, you are paying cash for the house. Most folks in the lower brackets that would be buying a house for $250k cannot pay cash for it.

There you go.  The only way to keep homes affordable in Puna is to build, buy and sell unpermitted ones.  

[MyManao]

Most folks in the lower brackets that would be buying a house for $250k cannot pay cash for it.

Interestingly, in some parts of the world, most of Waipio Valley for instance, 'conventional financing' is not available because of the lack of the basics that lending institutions require; vehicular access, utilities, fire department in the area, permitted structures, outside of a flood zone... you know, the stuff our mortgage backed reality expect as a bare minimum to ante up.. and seller financing is the norm. It certainly ain't for the faint of heart but it does make the world go 'round..

[HiloJulie]

Nearly impossible may be more correct. No bank will loan on an unpermitted home. They may loan on the value of the property/land itself and the value of the permitted parts of the home, but if that house is completely unpermitted and the price is $250k, you might only get approved for the $50k value of the land. In other words, you are paying cash for the house. Most folks in the lower brackets that would be buying a house for $250k cannot pay cash for it.

Which, if I am permitted to talk, is EXACTLY what I am saying.

If a home is fully permitted, there should be no issues in selling the home, at fair market value. Well, outside of having a willing buyer with either cash, ability to get a mortgage or a combination of both. And we see on the HPP Homes for Sale thread there does not seem to be any issues selling 750K plus McMansions in HPP.

My point further being anyone buying an unpermitted home for more than a few tens of thousands of dollars, better have a boat load of their own cash and understand what would need to be done to get it to code.

And if someone can afford to build a home valued at 250K or more, I'm pretty sure they would have the means to build it with all required permits. If I had 250K in cold hard cash, the LAST thing I'd buy is a 250K plus unpermitted home. Also, as I have said before, building housing on land that today requires a 30K to 50K septic system and 10K to 20K to hook up to grid power before one nail is hammered is just a reality that makes it an impossible expectation to have in any quest at making housing "affordable."

OK then, since I have nothing better to do and am filled with time, I'll extinguish my flame now for all you moths!

[kalakoa]

It's more correct to state that no financial institution will write a loan that does not follow Fannie/Freddie "guidelines" because the resulting mortgage won't be "saleable" on the secondary market. Any institution that uses its own money (sometimes called a "portfolio loan", meaning they keep it on their own books) is free to write their own rules because the loan doesn't have to be "saleable". Seller financing is a good example of this.

[Durian Fiend]

Most folks in the lower brackets that would be buying a house for $250k cannot pay cash for it.

Interestingly, in some parts of the world, most of Waipio Valley for instance, 'conventional financing' is not available because of the lack of the basics that lending institutions require; vehicular access, utilities, fire department in the area, permitted structures, outside of a flood zone... you know, the stuff our mortgage backed reality expect as a bare minimum to ante up.. and seller financing is the norm. It certainly ain't for the faint of heart but it does make the world go 'round..

The lending institutions require these so the property can be insured, correct?  

In the part of the world known as Greece, most home purchases are cash sales and very few people bother to carry insurance.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Over on the HPP homes for sale thread I posted a link a few weeks ago to the latest Big Island property sales.  In Puna, prices and number of sales in July 2025 are not much different than July 2024.  

On Hawaii Information Service MLS website there are now 4 single family dwellings for sale in HPP at $250,000 or less.

[MyManao]

Though in this case that cold water.. ie my 'too long

When people fight over a hurricane, bet on the hurricane.  It’s gonna do what it’s gonna do.

Yep, ain't it something, Edge?

I could say the sky is blue and the sun is yellow, and as much as Tom would like to say I am wrong, and post about it with claims of superiority that would raise the dead, all he could possibly do is say I got the order wrong or some such.. seriously, we all know everyone with a half a brain knows it’s proper to say the sun is yellow and the sky is blue.. right?

But still, he’s fun to entertain.. well maybe as fun as a chihuahua nipping at one’s heals.. growling to suggest he’s bigger and badder than any wolf that’s ever walked the earth.. but still, he’s only a chihuahua.. bow wow..

And it's another beautiful day! Damn I hope that storm brings some precipitation no matter. Seriously, if Kiko would start a gofundme campaign to that effect I am sure.. positive.. the ranchers and farmers on the island would chip in big time.

[TomK]

Though in this case that cold water.. ie my 'too long

When people fight over a hurricane, bet on the hurricane.  It’s gonna do what it’s gonna do.

Yep, ain't it something, Edge?

I could say the sky is blue and the sun is yellow, and as much as Tom would like to say I am wrong, and post about it with claims of superiority that would raise the dead, all he could possibly do is say I got the order wrong or some such.. seriously, we all know everyone with a half a brain knows it’s proper to say the sun is yellow and the sky is blue.. right?

But still, he’s fun to entertain.. well maybe as fun as a chihuahua nipping at one’s heals.. growling to suggest he’s bigger and badder than any wolf that’s ever walked the earth.. but still, he’s only a chihuahua.. bow wow..

And it's another beautiful day! Damn I hope that storm brings some precipitation no matter. Seriously, if Kiko would start a gofundme campaign to that effect I am sure.. positive.. the ranchers and farmers on the island would chip in big time.

What a load of crap. I summarized your overly-long post. I agreed with you that Kiko is unlikely to have a significant impact in Hawaii, and now you post this nonsense.