The Bicker Board

[ironyak]

Punatang - You know you're defeated when all you have is "racist".
Defeated? In a conversation? How can one win or lose a conversation?

As for being racist, well if it walks, quacks, and flaps like a koloa, then it's likely that, whether on Punaweb, "in the jungle, the mighty jungle", or in Hawai'i schools. The only way acknowledging the existence of racism is some sort of defeat is if one is engaged with a war against reality, where you must "reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was" the Party's "final, most essential command."

But please, explain how your supported project with the bananas, the apes, the TP white nationalism, and detaining of people based on their skin color or ability to speak Spanish has nothing to do with race, because Hawai'i Senator Schatz and UH students apparently see things differently and more clearly for what they are.

[MyManao]

All of the politicians you adore are on record calling for strong borders and deportations...

Hey, good morning P'tang, I am more in favor of the traditional paragraph, but no matter..

I don't know about all them "politicians" but I am on record.. have been all my life.. that our borders are BS, that limiting immigration is to our detriment, and deportations are inhumane. Especially here in Hawaii.

If people had free access to our islands, to our economy, then we would be so much better for it. Our farmers would thrive, and we would have far greater opportunity in business sectors that are practically non-existent here. Our schools would have far more, and better qualified, teachers. Our stores would have a far greater labor pool to draw upon, and their shelves filled with far more options and far better prices. Our families would be happier. All of which is limited by the ridiculous immigration policies that treat us, and everyone else, like slaves.

To me our border policies are infantile, and will be shown for as much as global climate change becomes more impactful. Protectionism is stupid.. and an economic loss.. but hey as Samuel Johnson observed "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." And OMG do scoundrels seem to infest everything these days.. even right here in Hawaii.

[HiloJulie]

Clarifying PunaWeb rule question:

Would a post by any PunaWeb poster subsequently edited for whatever reason deemed necessary by a duly authorized agent of PunaWeb Management and then subsequently re-edited by the original poster that reinstates all previously edited adjustments made by the duly authorized PunaWeb Management representative be deemed as a violation of any PunaWeb rules?

Asking for a friend

[ironyak]

Punatang - I can see that you're angry and frustrated
lol - not sure why you think I'm angry, more disappointed in people once again falling for obvious lies and stereotypes, but I appreciate the effort at actually having a conversation. As for racism, if you said your bananas shtick about Somali Americans out loud around me, yeah I'd speak up and make sure you understood that it's being racist. Like those UH Students and their protest against ICE, younger generations have no problem speaking up against racism and other injustices - sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.

To not monopolize the conversation, I'll let others tackle the "open door" (not accurate), "sacrificing the most vulnerable, law abiding people, for power" (how?), etc, etc, and even though I've read a fair amount about Cesar Chavez, you're going to have to give some hint as to what you're vaguely gesturing at (opposition to the Bracero Program?).

As for fear about local criminals terrorizing the women-folk, the fact that less than 14% of those arrested by ICE in the last year actually have violent criminal records doesn't seem to line up with your fears. About half of the arrested in Honolulu people you linked only have drug / immigration charges which are not violent crimes - are you in support of the government locking people up and deporting them for what they choose to put in their bodies?

ETA: Serious props to MyManao with one of the most articulate and succinct critiques of borders I've ever seen, and having done my anarchism homework, I've read and heard more than a few.

[MyManao]

Asking for a friend

Lawyer speak for not being willing to be accountable for one's own actions. And every time you defend you just make it worse..

[HiloJulie]

Asking for a friend

Lawyer speak for not being willing to be accountable for one's own actions.

Actually, I was indeed asking for a friend.

One of my elderly Hawaiian neighbor's, a lady and her very loud and talkative husband who do watch PunaWeb as Guests, pointed out to me  that the post in question had been edited by a duly authorized agent of PunaWeb Management and then subsequently re-edited back to its original state by the original poster, similar to someone more or less ignoring a Judge's rulings and orders.

I, myself, missed the actual edit and subsequent re-edit, it was my elderly Hawaiian neighbor and her very loud and talkative husband who brought it to my attention.

[leilanidude]

the fact that less than 14% of those arrested by ICE in the last year actually have violent criminal records doesn't seem to line up with your fears.
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That is still 14% too many to begin with, right? As to drug offenses not being considered by your "violent" count, in Hawaii, where meth and other drugs are contributing to plenty of burglaries and thefts, that is also way too many folks who should not be here either.

[Moderator 2]

Note to Punaweb users:

Your personal thoughts and opinions, no matter how important they are to you do not override the Punaweb requiement to keep posts Puna related, keep posts Hawaii related.

[MyManao]

that is also way too many folks who should not be here either.

Here in Hawaii I don't like the fact that our justice system, far too often, releases offenders back into the community upon being arrested to await further charges/processing. I think that is a ticket to more trouble. The police obviously think it saves them a bunch of humbug. If I didn't like it enough I could lobby my representatives to fix it, or be like the folks blaming the poor immigrant unjustly and ask DHS to deal with it. What a fucked up world, when we solve small problems by making bigger ones.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

That is still 14% too many to begin with, right? As to drug offenses not being considered by your "violent" count, in Hawaii,

Here’s an idea.  Why not focus on the 14% worst of the worst as advertised?  In Hawaii the worst of the worst might amount to 1% or 2%?  If the coffee growers, pickers, etc weren’t included in the roundup.

As to the local drug offenders, I don’t often see reports of immigrants involved in that activity, so not a lot of “folks who should not be here”. Unless you’re suggesting upping the penalty?