God

[HiloJulie]

Maybe so. I see religions as inherently discriminating, and that’s always been a problem with them.

I'd say that is a cart before the horse analogy, as when you think about it, isn't all of humanity inherently discriminatory?

[TomK]

But then you go on to say that god is a term, constructed by humans, I believe, that represents a unifying force. Well, that unifying force isn't doing much unifying, is it?

Actually, it is working great, perfectly in fact. And all the humbug you go on to cite is no more than man's made up gibberish. Your made up gibberish.

And that's how it is, all over. In fact it's just as easy to say it's god's perfect plan as it is to call it chaos. It's all in the eyes of the beholder. You create your reality. You label it, you feel all warm and fuzzy with your labels, and your labels define its possibilities. In essence, you are god. The creator of your own reality.

Have you ever tried humility?

So now god didn't create reality; it's individuals who do, and somehow all the wars and conflicts we are seeing should be ignored because this unification is working out perfectly? How this addresses Pele's alleged existence is beyond me, and I see less unification right now than I have seen in decades. We have an ongoing war in the Middle East, the US president complaining about the Brits, Pakistan, and Afghanistan are fighting each other, there's a war in Ukraine, Pakistan and India at each other's throats, and less than friendly relations between India and China, and a whole bunch of civil conflicts in Africa. I see no unification.

Just as an aside, it's also interesting that when I use a word that may not be in common usage here, others start using it as well.

[TomK]

To be clear, I'm not trying to say Agnosticism must be true because an authority like Carl Sagan said it. But given Sagan's unique combination of keen insight, clear communication, gentle humility, and genuine curiosity about the universe, I find his thoughts and ideas worth taking the time to consider. I think the world could be a much richer, kinder, and better understood place if more people took Sagan's ideas, and his methods for humbly and kindly engaging with these questions, to heart.

Seems to me Sagan said what I have been saying and in addition, he also said this at the end of the video:

"[...]we need much sharper language when we ask these questions".

[ironyak]

HJ - isn't all of humanity inherently discriminatory?
How so? How would all of humanity be inherently discriminatory?

TomK Seems to me Sagan said what I have been saying and in addition, he also said this at the end of the video: "[...][i]we need much sharper language when we ask these questions".
Much sharper language is most helpful, can even make clear the difference between an atheist like yourself TomK and an agnostic like Sagan.

For anyone interested in a small taste of this sharper and clearer language, here is a two page excerpt from The Demon-Haunted World with Sagan's suggestion on how to proceed when someone claims "A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage".

[HiloJulie]

How so? How would all of humanity be inherently discriminatory? 

Excellent question. 

It has been studied quite a bit, in what one could define as "modern times" mostly starting with the 1954 book "The Nature of Prejudice" by American psychologist Gordon Allport, which is still to this day remains the "standard" for explaining human prejudice. In the book, Allport reasoned that prejudice is essentially a by-product of the necessary mental shortcuts the human brain uses to process the vast amount of information it takes in. Because our brains want to use as little effort as possible, they regularly fall back on simple stereotypes – which easily generate prejudice.

In 2011, the Association for Psychological Science published an article that looks at what psychological scientists have learned about prejudice since the 1954 publication of Allport's book. The article studies that prejudice comes not from ideology, but instead, prejudice stems from a deeper psychological need, associated with a particular way of thinking. People who aren’t comfortable with ambiguity and want to make quick and firm decisions are also prone to making generalizations about others.

Another interesting article was published in the American Bar Association written by a female attorney nonetheless, that discusses implicit bias' in humans, and is quite an interesting read.

Bringing this back to Hawaii, back when both my husband and I commuted quite often from either Hilo or Kona to LAX, on a significant amount of the "red eye" flights that left Hawaii late at night and arrived in LA at 5AM or so, a numerous amount of those flights had at least one woman, and a surprising amount of those flights had two women "behind the wheel." On several occasions, some of those flights had customers, ALL of them males, and once realizing who was going to be flying the plane were female, decided to not take the flight, and seek other means to go back to LA. Similar to the mentality that lead a recently departed political activist loved by millions of people to once opine that “If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, ‘Boy, I hope he’s qualified.’”

So, yeah, I'd say that all of humanity is inherently discriminatory.

[leilanidude]

a numerous amount of those flights had at least one woman, and a surprising amount of those flights had two women "behind the wheel."
--------
Doubtful. The longer flights on the big planes are awarded based upon seniority (ask the union on that) and since women pilots were not that numerous they would not have had the flight hours needed to bump their way to those flights. I will ask my friend, captain mark who is now flying semi-retired for American and who flew trip7's for years from DFW to HNL, KOA, OGG and LIH his thoughts. He currently flies 787's twice a month from DFW to various South American cities on contract, for $820 an hour. Nice gig if you can get it!

[Rob Tucker]

Looks like this topic got jacked.

[HiloJulie]

a numerous amount of those flights had at least one woman, and a surprising amount of those flights had two women "behind the wheel."
--------
Doubtful. The longer flights on the big planes are awarded based upon seniority (ask the union on that) and since women pilots were not that numerous they would not have had the flight hours needed to bump their way to those flights. I will ask my friend, captain mark who is now flying semi-retired for American and who flew trip7's for years from DFW to HNL, KOA, OGG and LIH his thoughts. He currently flies 787's twice a month from DFW to various South American cities on contract, for $820 an hour. Nice gig if you can get it!

Original reply to the Dude deleted to appease the more sensitive. 

My apologies. 

I now look forward to the continued TomK, MyManao & Ironyak God/No God/Religion/Pele debate.

[ironyak]

FWIW, I didn't interpret the request as saying you overstepped, more just can you circle back and land this plane of ideas you're piloting both in Hawaii and about God. Personally I wouldn't have removed your video as some people just need a big beautiful slap in the face from reality, but I may have missed later edits or changes that prompted the feedback.

Given how you stated your point, you clearly had something you wanted to say. For my part, I've been working through your links and chewing on the ideas in them. Lots of interesting info, but not sure how to weave them into the existing tracks, and I feel I've spent more than my fair share of time doing solos, duos, and dueling riffs so wouldn't mind sitting down and strumming along in the background for a bit while someone else steps up and takes the spotlight.

[MyManao]

land this plane of ideas you're piloting both in Hawaii and about God..

Seems to me reams of waxing nostalgically about black chicks flying planes is a hard stretch. In fact, going on about flying to and fro ain't really got anything to do with Puna, Hawaii either, does it? Though start a thread of its own and see if it flies.. in fact maybe try that whenever the itch strikes. It certainly would make it easier for those that don't use the blocking function to navigate..

As for this particular thread it just seemed like oil and water..