DOGE in Hawaii - 19,042 Ballot Mystery On Big Island

[randomq]

You do not know that it is a lie.

I do.  It would be physically impossible for that many ballots to be "missing envelopes", as the envelopes are opened at the counting center in Hilo in the presence of observers from all the parties.  The only ballots sent to be scanned in are ones that came from those envelopes, with the exception of a handful of electronic ballots from troops/overseas/disabled, which are also accounted for.  There is no point in the process in which "ballots missing envelopes" can be snuck into the scanning.  Even if someone tried, the county and state managers reconcile their counts throughout the night, district by district, which would catch the discrepancy.  I know those people, they stress out if the count is off by one.

Cushnie is alleging that *extra* envelopes somehow appeared that were not accounted for by the USPS bills and the drop-box totals.  But as I mentioned, there are many reasons why those USPS counts are not accurate enough to be used for auditing (1st class letters not scanned individually like packages, ballot mail pulled out of the mailstream for direct delivery to or pickup by the county, so it doesn't take days to route through the sorters in Honolulu and disenfranchise a bunch of last minute voters).

If you want to pursue his conspiracy theory, you would have to believe that some group of people somehow stole 19,000 ballot packets, or registered 19,000 non-voters to vote (all with valid signatures as checked with the DMV, or individually registered in person, and with several thousand different, valid residential and mailing addresses all over the island that don't conflict with real voters).  And none of the real voters noticed they were missing a ballot, or received a ballot unexpectedly when they didn't sign up to vote, or for some other name, or counted as voted when they weren't.  And none of the fake voters were caught by the political parties and candidates, which regularly get copies of the voter rolls to see who's new to an area, when people last voted, etc.  And none of them were flagged in the system because they moved to another state or died or were incarcerated...

Legally, elections have to be contested within certain period of weeks after the election date, and with some kind of evidence.  The way the law is written I'm not sure the state OE has an obligation to open the records to the election commission for a misinformed hunch.  Still, that's why I have my reservations about Scott Nago.  Personally, I would try to maintain a better relationship with the election commission, and inform them to the point that they can satisfy their curiosity and actually make useful contributions to election security and trust.  But based on personal experience, there are some people that will never be satisfied and never admit they were wrong, no matter how much you share and explain.  And of course there are also politically motivated bad-actors that are looking for a certain outcome, even when they know damn well what they're saying is false, or astronomically improbable.

[Punatang]

Cushnie is alleging that *extra* envelopes somehow appeared that were not accounted for by the USPS bills and the drop-box totals. - RandomQ  

That is very interesting and I'm sure you have a good reason for believing it.  If I believed that statement to be true, we would not be having this dialogue.

One thing is clear and this is that Ralph Cushnie has had a great deal to say about the 19,042 ballot question.  Can you please point us to a statement or two, made directly by Ralph Cushnie, which led you to believe that he is "alleging that *extra* envelopes somehow appeared"?

My contention, which is supported by numerous statements, motions, and emails by Ralph Cushnie, is that the opposite is true.  He does not believe that there are 19,042 *extra* envelopes somewhere. He believes that, if The People were permitted to count the envelopes, that there would prove to be 19,042 *too few* envelopes to be able to legitimately validate the election results.
 
He believes that the state is reporting 19,042 *more* mail-in votes, than there are envelopes to validate.  He believes those 19,042 *extra*,  "ballots were added electronically into the SVRS Statewide Voter Registration System with no paper records."

See page 41&42 of 220: https://elections.hawaii.gov/wp-content/...Packet.pdf

See page 34&35 of 409: https://elections.hawaii.gov/wp-content/...Packet.pdf

If I believed what you believe, I would argue what you are arguing.  If you believed what I believe, would you agree that Scott Nago should immediately facilitate an official audit (counting) of the envelopes so that we can find the problem with the process?

[randomq]

Having now read those pages, I see that he is both claiming that the discrepancy comes from the incomplete BRM numbers, but that he *also* claims "The 19,042 ballots were added electronically into the SVRS Statewide Voter Registration System with no paper records." So I gave him some credit he did not deserve earlier; he truly is claiming something that is not just improbable, but impossible to get away with. Having seen that, I do *not* agree that they should facilitate an audit. The premise of the allegation is ludicrous.

I'm concerned that *you* somehow still believe these allegations though. I've tried to clearly explain why that volume of "votes without ballots" could never be "snuck in" due to the processes at the counting center, the checks between county and state totals per precinct, the presence of observers from the political parties at every step, etc. Do you have some theory how it could have happened? Is there anything I explained that you disagree with?

I'm happy to game out any scenario by which you think this is possible.

[Punatang]

No, I did not say that I believe that.

I'm concerned that you are deflecting and unwilling to produce one or two direct statements by Ralph Cushnie to support your earlier (now amended) beliefs that:

Cushnie is alleging that *extra* envelopes somehow appeared that were not accounted for by the USPS bills and the drop-box totals. - RandomQ 

I've researched this a great deal and have not found any evidence of this so I'd appreciate you helping us grasp how you got there with a direct quote or two to support your allegation.

What I believe is what I stated in my earlier post and only that.  That Ralph Cushnie is not 
alleging that *extra* envelopes somehow appeared that were not accounted for by the USPS bills and the drop-box totals."

What I believe is that Ralph Cushnie believes that votes were electronically added to the SVRS without a paper trail to validate them.  I have no theory as to if that happened, or how it could happen upstream of the process you were involved in.  I hope it did not happen. 

One PIG report supports, and two motions passed in two separate meetings, by The Hawaii Elections Commission, including a "yea" by Mike Curtis, whom you seem to admire, have directed Scott Nago to facilitate an observed audit of the envelopes.  Clearly it is not "debunked" except for in the minds of people who would prefer to sweep this under the rug. The People have spoken and our servants refuse to comply.  Why not just count the envelopes and actually debunk the dimwitted and willfully ignorant Hawaii Elections Commission?  Wouldn't it be a good idea at this point to restore faith in the process for everyone?  

Can you please humor us with evidence that led you to believe that: Cushnie is alleging that *extra* envelopes somehow appeared that were not accounted for by the USPS bills and the drop-box totals. - RandomQ 

[Durian Fiend]

"...To be clear.. we all know.. even you know.. all this election pilikia is trickle down nonsense from the madman who wants to be king..."

Unfortunately there are many who apparently do not know this.

The only election reform we need in Hawaii and the nation as a whole is to get big money out of politics.

[HiloJulie]

What I believe is that Ralph Cushnie believes that votes were electronically added to the SVRS without a paper trail to validate them.  I have no theory at to if that happened, or how this could happen upstream of the process you were involved in.  I hope it did not happen.

I don't doubt for one second that you truly believe that.

Some people believe Barack Obama was born in Kenya.

[randomq]

Punatang,

As I said, I was giving him some credit he didn't deserve. Apparently his story has changed over time. He was initially claiming that votes were being added during signature verification (a county process involving scanning in ballot *envelopes*). Here's an example: https://youtu.be/Cd_6kbFz-uY?si=jJgfPoSdox7frwtj&t=7915

I guess once that didn't pan out he decided to claim they were added electronically to the vote tabulations, which is a state process that occurs at a totally separate time with the ballots themselves.

I'm really trying to humor you here man. As I said, I will literally game out whatever scenario you can imagine this happened by. I can do that because I care about the process, and bothered to learn how it works and what the safeguards are, unlike Cushnie.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank.
They track voter fraud.
Since 1982 there have been 5 cases in Hawaii. The State. That’s 44 years.

https://electionfraud.heritage.org/search

Voter fraud is nearly nonexistent, except in the mind of those who lost elections and can’t accept the fact. With tv, podcasts, talk radio they have a platform to repeat repeat repeat and hypnotize their true believers into thinking “he’s sounds so convincing, maybe there’s something there. People are talking.”

Then they create doubt, and a solution that disenfranchises voters.
Every vote counts?
Not so much.

[Punatang]

Voter fraud is nearly nonexistent, except in the mind of those who lost elections and can’t accept the fact. - Edge

No one is accusing voters of committing fraud in this case so maybe wrong thread?

RandomQ - Apparently his story has changed over time....bothered to learn how it works and what the safeguards are, unlike Cushnie.

It sounds like you are witnessing the evolution of his bothering to learn, while you cast aspersions about outdated information.  These are citizens doing their best to understand a complicated process with major stonewalling and admitted gaps in transparency.  This isn't his job. He's a contractor. He works on public schools, homes, and businesses on Kauai. 

Nothing has changed about what Ralph Cushnie believes is happening. You might be right that his vocabulary has evolved but that's what you want him to bother to do, correct?

What he believes is that The Counties are doing very solid work and reporting their real numbers and then the numbers are changing at the state level where we have switched from hand counting to scanning images exactly like he says in the video you posted today RandomQ which you feel proves your point.

"I ask for the counties to step forward.  You know your chain of custody is good and you know your numbers are not jiving [with the states numbers], you need to step forward."

The "signature verification" he is talking about in the video is the image scanning process at the state.  Unfortunate choice of words by a layman bothering to learn, as it gives naysayers license to insist he is talking about the "signature verification" that happens at the counties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd_6kbFz-uY&t=7915s

He believes the counties report accurate numbers but no one is willing to defy The State when the numbers change.  He gives an example of 1,660 votes on Kauai.  He says, "There is no way anyone can fake that many votes - I've gone around to all of the precincts - the numbers are solid"

He believes that election workers in The Counties (people you know) have an airtight process and he states, "to be fair to any observer, what they see would look totally legit".

How do I know this?  Because I reached out to Ralph Cushnie today. He called me and gave me 20 minutes and 58 seconds of his hard working time.  He is humble, self depreciating, intelligent, knowledgeable, and the kind of guy you would want to grab a green bottle with.  

I sincerely hope that none of you ever has legitimate concerns about an election result. If and when you do, I hope Ralph Cushnie or someone just like him, is there to represent you.

post #3 for 3/18/26 - aloha

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

No one is accusing voters of committing fraud

There’s no fraud? No one is at fault? We’re hunting for a ghost, in the machine?
Or is your dismissal of facts and figures a way to avoid the truth, elections are overseen by both parties, discrepancies are rare, and every case investigated in Hawaii and elsewhere since 2000 has turned up nothing. But there’s a lot of elections so when one “investigation” proves the vote was accurate the bad actors move on to another. Easy to do when dealing with an audience of short term memories who never seem to say “fool me once no shame on you, fool me 100 times, and I’ll keep watching and hoping.”