The Bicker Board

[MyManao]

I am quite sure you have used both of your hands quite extensively, since you turned around 12 years old and hung up those Crissy Snow Pin Up pics in your bedroom.

I'd suggest you finally take them down, however, judging by the layers of body fluids you have no doubt sprayed over all of them, it may be considered a hazardous bio waste at this point and should be done under strict regulations for both removal and disposal.

Also, Corn Huskers Lotion will help you heal those 3/4 inch thick callouses on both your hands as well. I am sure you would also find another appropriate use for it too.

I take you seriously 100%. And what I wrote above, is YOU 100%

Yo, Chrissy, are you sure you're done saying your piece? Seriously, that's an awfully short diatribe by your standards, and it's always so much fun watching you squirm. You know, stretching your, as the Dude puts it, vile, mind to the task. Really, I am sure you could wax poetically on the subject given some encouragement. And for one that has feigned disgust, as if your puritanical mind has been assaulted by the slightest mention of your proclivities, you sure know your way around the gutter. So why not give it a tour de force. Have at it, there's nothing you can say that Tom hasn't already taken out for a spin. And besides it's late, so no need worry about the kiddie's sensibilities.. bring it on mama!

[HiloJulie]

As some of the "devout" occasionally say, "I have seen the light!"

And with all the recent Bill Maher talk, and after watching tonight's episode, I submit my "New Rule:"

[HiloJulie]

Continuing on to responding to Yak:

@HJ - highlighting just the questions/differences:
Planting trees on Earth Day goes back to the first Earth Day in 1970 and was an annual tradition for being a kid in the 70s and 80s. Of course we plant/ed trees on other days as well, silly.

I was responding to your original comment where you claimed "Ouch, and after all that time planting trees on Earth Day" 

Farm Aid was mostly 80s awareness stuff as I was largely still a kid, so unable to travel or donate, although my family called in. Did you travel or donate to Willy and the boys? Same goes for boycotting South Africa over Apartheid (which your boy Musk and his family was/is all in on) - the point is that much of GenX were raised in a protest culture and environment, doubly so if you had hippie parents.

Well, yes, yes I have supported Willie and the boys. Both directly and indirectly. I was at the first Farm Aid held in Champaign, Illinois in 1985. Further, the law firm I was with for over 30 years did all the various copyright work for every Farm Aid concert from around 1995ish on, and while not directly involved in that work, the firm did all that work pro bono, which, as a member of the firm, members of the firm pay for that pro bono work indirectly. 

So, is the jab about Musk being my buddy, because I bought Starlink? Did you never use EBay? Pay Pal? And then, how did YOU specifically boycott South Africa? As for me, again, indirectly I boycotted South Africa in a minor way, in that I did do some minor legal work for several clients who at that time, divested themselves of their holdings as it related to their involvement in South Africa issues, but, being clear, was paid for that work.

ELF - We've had this conversation before, but if the powers-that-be aren't going to take a stand and do what is right then other people have to. Much like anti-slavery movement, there are times what is right and what is the law diverge. (see Ethan Hawke (b. 1970) as John Brown in The Good Lord Bird or Robert Wilcox for more info)

Comparing what went on during slavery to damaging oil pipelines, acts of arson or other infrastructure damage, flattening tires of Range Rover SUV's or throwing cans of tomato soup at antique artworks today, that serves no purpose except to fulfill the egotistical needs of the protestor doing that is a bit disingenuous to say the least and quite frankly, diminishes the actions that did indeed take place during the times of slavery. 

Those rounds of antinuke sign waving mentioned were not at the Pohakuloa Training Area, but back at the mainland.  As for "jazz hands", that's a practice that evolved out of Occupy as a way of quickly assessing consensus without having to interrupt the speaker. Bill could learn a thing or two from it, so his 2 minutes of material doesn't take 10 minutes to deliver because of the constant interruption of the trained seals in his audience.

Well, first, nice attempt at the 10 minutes of trained seal clapping for 2 minutes of material delivery is another great example of your continued hyperbole, like I could say, "I've told you 10 billion times to stop exaggerating?" I am also sure you would never wear an "aggressive scent." 

As for the "jazz hands" as applause starting under your history revision at Occupy protests, it really started as shown here. But, hey you tried. Hyperbole, again?

And then the sign waving on the mainland? So then you have indeed flown on those big carbon belching planes after all? Or just more of that "You can do it, no one else can" mentality?

As for "GTO", corrected, thanks. I put originally G7, and tried to correct to WTO (Seattle '99), but mangled it all up. Probably long term effects from too much tear gas. Never met Jimmy, just hammered nails locally, but learned plenty skills that we brought with us here. I find HI Redemption centers to be the preferred source for clothes - buy by the pound, give to others as needed, and keep usable items out of the landfill.

Yes, the WTO Seattle protest in 1999 was a good protest. But, you know, why don't we ever have a discussion as to how America became addicted to cheap foreign made crap, versus good old made in America stuff? How did the best selling brand of car in America go from General Motors to Toyota? American made steel to China made steel? Remember Ross Perot and the "great sucking sound?" Why did Americans and American companies fight paying workers a good union wages with good benefits to substandard uneducated non union foreign workers, or in the case of high tech, such as iPhones, computers and televisions, go from good American workers, earning good wages to more or less enslaved Chinese workers? Why? Because Americans are to damned cheap to pay what it would cost to pay American workers what they deserve. If Americans and American companies leaded the way, instead of just simply maximizing "shareholder value" for a select few, the WTO might have been called the ATO - American Trade Organization.

Let me ask you this: What do you think about Pete Buttigieg for POTUS? Granted, that question has nothing to do with Puna or Hawaii, but then, neither does any of our back and forth on this entire subject, so while there are those who like to nit pick and split hairs, in continuance of our discussion, which, being clear, you started, I'd say it fits in well.

[MyManao]

Let me ask you this: What do you think about Pete Buttigieg for POTUS?

Does Pete live in Puna? Hawaii? Does he even sport aloha wear? 

Or, pray tell, where in Puna is POTUS? Seriously, what does anything you are going on about have to do with Hawaii?

[ironyak]

HJ - And with all the recent Bill Maher talk, and after watching tonight's episode, I submit my "New Rule:"
Bill complains about people posting their opinions online, proceeds to post opinion about it online, so others can repost the opinion online - ok boomers, arf, arf go the seals... ;) (PS - "jazz hands" has quotes for a reason, it's not actually jazz hands that you linked to, but a pejorative term for the hand signals used by Occupy and in some prior/subsequent leftist gatherings)

I'd also make sure to watch "The AI Doc: Or How I Became an Apocaloptimist" which is scheduled to be shown at the Prince Kuhio Plaza starting March 27, 2026.
In doing a PW search with few results, I'm surprised we never talked about Tristan Harris/Aza Raskin and their podcast Your Undivided Attention as it was in my daily rotation for several months over the last couple years. Raskin invented the infinite scroll (and acknowledges its addictive nature) and Harris has been documenting/commenting on tech and AI's role in the gamification and profitability of generally making life worse. As for the AI CEO's like Sam Altman, they raise money by claiming their tools are going to replace all human labor (which many businesses want) and maybe destroy the world (so the government will create onerous legislation to prevent new upstarts from competing). Regardless, the reviews seem decent enough, probably check it out when it hits "streaming" for free.

Trying to focus on Hawai'i:
A. Regulate AI before it wipes out humanity and earth. Musky's kiddie porn producing Grok is immaterial when unregulated AI takes every human's job, income and life way. And then launches a full scale nuclear war.
Child exploitation is never immaterial (why are you such an apologist for this?) and while AI has made some inroads for jobs very reliant on text generation (Claude and coding for instance), "AI" in it current form can't perform all sorts of human labor, from picking papayas to repairing your lifted Taco. While the White House is pressing for a national framework preventing state-level regulation, local boy Brian Schatz (b. 1972) is fighting this. Don't want AI to take everyone's job and end the world? Start by not using it, go grow some food, and do some human-focused work in the real world of Puna.

As for Global Thermonuclear War, we've all grown up under the threat of some "intelligence" ending all life, whether it be artificial (War Games 1983) or military (Dr. Strangelove - 1964). For the documentarian's new kid I'd say welcome to the party pal (Die Hard - 1988) and have a plan for the next missile alert beyond jumping in the nearest storm drain. (IRL - 2018 and "Duck and Cover"- 1951)

B. Recover American Democracy from the bottom of the 500 men construction site porta potty where it is in today.
Hmm, maybe experience with organizing locally, protesting issues, registering people to vote, and working the legislative process would be handy here? Obviously it takes people caring enough to at least pay attention to issues (while skipping the internecine wars of the talking heads), but with the immediate impacts to their koa-wood kitchen table issues, seems harder for people to ainokea forever.

C. No longer elect anybody in the Boomer or Gen X classification. Electing our government representation who mostly need to wear diapers is no longer a tenable situation.
Agreed that boomer reps are at, or past, the end of being fit for purpose (Ed Case (b. 1952) cough cough) but Schatz (b. 1972) and Tokuda (b. 1976) still have plenty of tread in them IMO. I generally agree though and tend to vote for the youngest candidate that seems informed and passionate - their generation has to deal with the decisions made for the longest time so best to give them as much a say in the matter as possible (and encourage them to stay in the fight even if they don't get elected this round).

Everything else from 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 50 years ago is no longer relevant.
The past is prologue and the best time to start preparing was 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, or 50 years ago - the second best time is now.

ETA: Calvin Cordozar Broadus Jr. aka Snoop Dogg (b. 1971) has worked with the Gorillaz guys (b. 1968) on their "Welcome to the World of Plastic Beach" (that's about Hawai'i right? ;) and his "Sumthin Like This Night" (very much a blazing at the bayfront vibe) and the Gorillaz 6th album The Now Now. Lots of creative and collaborative GenXers out there doing amazing work once you know to look.

[HiloJulie]

HJ - And with all the recent Bill Maher talk, and after watching tonight's episode, I submit my "New Rule:"
Bill complains about people posting their opinions online, proceeds to post opinion about it online, so others can repost the opinion online - ok boomers, arf, arf go the seals... (PS - "jazz hands" has quotes for a reason, it's not actually jazz hands that you linked to, but a pejorative term for the hand signals used by Occupy and in some prior/subsequent leftist gatherings)

I guess maybe you missed the reference to the "jazz hands" from the Bill Maher clip about the Democratic Socialists Convention. That was the "jazz hands" I am discussing. So maybe one could say you did not watch the clip, just critiqued Bill? If you wanted to change the subject of the "jazz hands" I was discussing to the "jazz hands" you are now discussing maybe be a bit more clear? Also, Bill's clip was not about people posting their opinions on line as he posts his opinion. It was about people REACTING to what people post on line. And who those people are. And their relativity to society. And lets remember, it is not the boomers going arf, arf, arf, its the Gen Z and younger Millennials doing all the rage posting.

I'd also make sure to watch "The AI Doc: Or How I Became an Apocaloptimist" which is scheduled to be shown at the Prince Kuhio Plaza starting March 27, 2026.
In doing a PW search with few results, I'm surprised we never talked about Tristan Harris/Aza Raskin and their podcast Your Undivided Attention as it was in my daily rotation for several months over the last couple years. Raskin invented the infinite scroll (and acknowledges its addictive nature) and Harris has been documenting/commenting on tech and AI's role in the gamification and profitability of generally making life worse. As for the AI CEO's like Sam Altman, they raise money by claiming their tools are going to replace all human labor (which many businesses want) and maybe destroy the world (so the government will create onerous legislation to prevent new upstarts from competing). Regardless, the reviews seem decent enough, probably check it out when it hits "streaming" for free.

Yes, waiting to see it free. Not one of those bootleg sites now I hope. You're not one of these "some rule(s) of some law(s)" kinda of guy are you? At any event, your commitment to one of the most important and somewhat immediate threat to civilization is clear to me.

Trying to focus on Hawai'i:
A. Regulate AI before it wipes out humanity and earth. Musky's kiddie porn producing Grok is immaterial when unregulated AI takes every human's job, income and life way. And then launches a full scale nuclear war.
Child exploitation is never immaterial (why are you such an apologist for this?) and while AI has made some inroads for jobs very reliant on text generation (Claude and coding for instance), "AI" in it current form can't perform all sorts of human labor, from picking papayas to repairing your lifted Taco. While the White House is pressing for a national framework preventing state-level regulation, local boy Brian Schatz (b. 1972) is fighting this. Don't want AI to take everyone's job and end the world? Start by not using it, go grow some food, and do some human-focused work in the real world of Puna.

Yes, by all means focus on Hawaii. We don't want to upset the puritans!

As for child exploitation and your comment of me being an apologist for it is quite disingenuous and rather insulting coming from someone like you. Deserves ZERO response. 

Now, while AI can't pick papayas or fix my lifted "FORD ONLY OWNER" vehicles (I believe in American businesses, their shareholders and employees, not some foreign companies shareholders) today, at the rate it is evolving, well... tik tok tik tok (I am imitating the sound of a clock, not discussing the social media platform and a reference known all to well to boomers)

And again, like the cry of "their coming to take my guns" your claim that AI regulation will "prevent new upstarts from competing" rings just as hollow and empty.

As for Global Thermonuclear War, we've all grown up under the threat of some "intelligence" ending all life, whether it be artificial (War Games 1983) or military (Dr. Strangelove - 1964). For the documentarian's new kid I'd say welcome to the party pal (Die Hard - 1988) and have a plan for the next missile alert beyond jumping in the nearest storm drain. (IRL - 2018 and "Duck and Cover"- 1951)

Yeah, remember the 1983 move The Day After? Grew up in a house with an in ground ""Emergency Shelter." But those were depictions of just men doing men things. Totally different when the men just turn on Grok Revision 295  and then go to their bunker now don't you think?

B. Recover American Democracy from the bottom of the 500 men construction site porta potty where it is in today.
Hmm, maybe experience with organizing locally, protesting issues, registering people to vote, and working the legislative process would be handy here? Obviously it takes people caring enough to at least pay attention to issues (while skipping the internecine wars of the talking heads), but with the immediate impacts to their koa-wood kitchen table issues, seems harder for people to ainokea forever.

Of course doing all of that would be handy. But despite doing that, which can always be admittedly more and more, but how did more people not care enough to at least pay attention to issue that led us to where we are today? 

C. No longer elect anybody in the Boomer or Gen X classification. Electing our government representation who mostly need to wear diapers is no longer a tenable situation.
Agreed that boomer reps are at, or past, the end of being fit for purpose (Ed Case (b. 1952) cough cough) but Schatz (b. 1972) and Tokuda (b. 1976) still have plenty of tread in them IMO. I generally agree though and tend to vote for the youngest candidate that seems informed and passionate - their generation has to deal with the decisions made for the longest time so best to give them as much a say in the matter as possible (and encourage them to stay in the fight even if they don't get elected this round).

Agree with you on Case, as well as Schatz and Tokuda. We'll see how much of democracy and Hawaii for that matter is or is not in the bottom of the porta john when we see the next elections vote tally for Tokuda and her now announced opponent Awa, of which, I believe this decision of Awa to run against Tokuda is just his face saving exit strategy from politics as I am sure he would be much more content and at home shirtless, board shorts, flip flops and a surf board.

Everything else from 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 50 years ago is no longer relevant.
The past is prologue and the best time to start preparing was 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, or 50 years ago - the second best time is now.

Well, if the past is the prologue that got us what we have right now today, there needs to be one hell of a massive shift to change the outcome for the next  2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, or 50

As for Snoop, he is one cool dude!

[Moderator 2]

I’ve taken a more relaxed, hands off approach to Punaweb moderation while we work on returning the page to its normal function and appearance.  
Now it’s back to Old Rules:

* Keep posts Hawaii related, even on the Bicker Board
* Keep videos Hawaii related except in the “seen any good movies” thread.
* The ‘90’s layers have been fun and nostalgic, but let’s refrain from any further embellishments.  It does make the page harder to read with all the gee gaws bouncing and scrolling.  That goes for non animated additions as well.

[ironyak]

Thanks for the patience and tolerance Mod2 - it's been fun while it lasted and interesting to see how much of that deprecated code can be resurfaced as needed.

How's the fixes going? Anything us tech-inclined folks can do to help?

[HiloJulie]

Yes, I have to agree, thanks for the patience and tolerance Moderator 2, both in the allowance of the spoken, often times off Puna/Hawaii subject, as well as the patience and tolerance in allowing one or more rouge tech-inclined folk(s) to take seeming advantage of a somewhat technically "injured good friend" and inflict a version of a "reality distortion field" reminiscent of Bill and Steve!

[ironyak]

So some of us, once upon a time, made the effort to learn that "some rules can be bent, others can be broken." But we like Punaweb and so are just playing around with the creative possibilities the system allows without causing the massive disruptions possible. Maybe we should get us some (virtual) happy Hawai'i white hats?