DHHL meetings on geothermal energy exploration

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

People still write checks?

In the case of HECO, they clearly state when you sign up for online payments that you agree to binding arbitration if you have a disagreement with them.  That means you lose.

If you write a check you have the option of hiring your own attorney and then it becomes, how much do you want to spend fighting a gigantic monopoly?  Probably with lawyers on staff?  How much do you want to spend to win, maybe?  But then, there’s a chance.

[TomK]

Instead of going back and blaming politicians for this and that, how about suggesting how we go about fixing things? I always liked the idea of hydrogen; the problem is that producing hydrogen is more expensive than extracting fossil fuels. I support nuclear energy, whether it's fission or fusion, but neither is suitable for Hawaii. Wind power might help, but I see few wind farms in the islands. Tidal power is probably not even worth looking at, given our geography. But we have a massive underground energy source that very few other places have. For reasons that annoy me, it's not being exploited anywhere near as much as it could be.

[MyManao]

TomK - I support nuclear energy..

Yeah, that's a great choice.. considering how we've trashed the planet already what's a little more radioactivity? I mean, seriously, how is anything that saddles future generations with horrors that will haunt them for thousands of years supportable? It's wholly inhumane by my measure.

TomK - But we have a massive underground energy source that very few other places have..

Again, seriously? "very few other places have..?" The entire western half of the USA has already been identified as a geothermal resource rich area. Thousand and thousands of miles worth. In fact, our volcanoes make it more difficult, not less, in that beyond a certain point the heat is too much and drives the resource away. Steam, the resource in question, is available at a reasonable depth across vast swaths of land.. as per the SMU temperature-at-depth maps available at..

https://www.smu.edu/dedman/academics/dep...raturemaps

Or for more info the National Laboratory of the Rockies at https://www.nlr.gov/geothermal publishes this map of the geothermal potential of the entire USA..



And, of course, everyone, you me anyone on the planet, can have home size, building size, geothermal heat pumps right now.. no wishy washy gotta have a volcano in your back yard. Anywhere.. as described here..

https://www.energy.gov/topics/geothermal

But yeah, for industrial sized geothermal you gotta drill a few kilometers, it's not rocket science.. and it ain't a pie in the sky guessing game of astronomy... it's simple down to earth mechanical physics. And now that we have a body of data it's an easy fix for our energy needs without any pollution, very little land and practically no waste.. practically anywhere.

[TomK]

TomK - I support nuclear energy..

Yeah, that's a great choice.. considering how we've trashed the planet already what's a little more radioactivity? I mean, seriously, how is anything that saddles future generations with horrors that will haunt them for thousands of years supportable? It's wholly inhumane by my measure.

I'm sorry for upsetting you with my post. I thought you might have taken advice and ignored me, but apparently not. 

I can make a very good argument for fission and fusion and how better it is for the environment than coal or oil, but given I've already said nuclear power isn't relevant to Hawaii, I don't understand why you mention it other than it's yet another one of your ridiculous straw man arguments.

Go on, blab away about how evil I am, and I'm such a despicable human being. In the meantime, read this:

https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy

Hannah Ritchie (2020) - “What are the safest and cleanest sources of energy?” Published online at OurWorldinData.org. Retrieved from: 'https://archive.ourworldindata.org/20260305-101825/safest-sources-of-energy.html' [Online Resource] (archived on March 5, 2026).

Let us all know what points are wrong and how inhumane nuclear power is compared to other energy sources.

Further, MayManao wrote:

"But yeah, for industrial sized geothermal you gotta drill a few kilometers, it's not rocket science.. and it ain't a pie in the sky guessing game of astronomy... it's simple down to earth mechanical physics. And now that we have a body of data it's an easy fix for our energy needs without any pollution, very little land and practically no waste.. practically anywhere."

Now you seem to be arguing against a position I haven't taken. I'm all for geothermal energy, but you seem to think I'm against it. I also have no idea why you think bringing astronomy into your argument helps; it makes you look irrational, unbalanced, and jealous.

[TomK]

[...] The one whose ideas win the day. [...]

I'm all for that.

---

https://www.civilbeat.org/2016/07/why-it...an-energy/...

Seriously, 'Tang, when an issue excites you, great, but a full on reproduction of a Civil Beat article, including their logo and all that other stuff, is (I think) criminal. 

If you think it's a criminal act and you witnessed it, call the police to help keep us safe from vile criminals. You never know, you might save a life or help take down an illegal copyright gang from taking over the streets.

[leilanidude]

@Tang - So did you buy Ormat stock a year ago in the low $70's? Hope you did. It is in the low $120's now.

[Chas]

I always thought this wave power technology would be perfect on the Hilo breakwater. Mostly NOT in the water, meaning less maintenance and deployment costs, and it would be close to the industrial area.


https://www.ecowavepower.com/

[Punatang]

Admittedly, there was a great deal of the article left after I cut from the end and cut out 7 images. I will avail to cut more in the future but the remainder of the article was extremely relevant to a number of threads and posts.  In retrospect, it is clear that the content was difficult for some to handle.

No one apparently has any problem when Hilo Julie posts entire, paywall protected articles.  My mistake was naively harboring hope that the same latitude would be extended to The Amazing Linda Lingle, especially since, unlike HJ, I did remove quite a bit from the non-paywall article. Probably something to do with "context".  It is what it is.  Live and learn. Thank you for helping me become the best Punawebber that I can be. Aloha.

State stuck with another dilapidated Banyan Drive property (Jan 26, 2025)
https://punaweb.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=23552

Council bill seeks to ease permit restrictions for ag lot owners (Oct 6, 2024)
https://punaweb.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=23442

County driver safety coordinator charged with DUI after crash (Jan 4, 2025)
https://punaweb.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=23519

[Moderator 2]

In retrospect, it is clear that the content was difficult for some to handle.

The article was fine. Everything was Hawaii related.
The quote was simply too long.  
The link for the article in its entirety was posted.
You were told you could repost the parts that you felt were most important.  What was edited out was for brevity, not content.
Simple as that.

[MyManao]

State stuck with.. Council bill seeks to.. County driver safety coordinator charged...

Let me see, the thread is about geothermal, and more specifically, if we were to get down in the weeds, DHHL's plans to explore the resource on their lands throughout the sate. So, please brother 'Tang, help me out here.. what does any of that have to do with the subject at hand? Really, if those issues have any meaning at all why not start your own threads with them? Otherwise, what's your point?

Regarding geothermal.. I have spent a good part of my life focused in one way or another on geothermal here in Hawaii. 

In the early eighties I was a part of a small group in Volcano call Puna Geothermal Committee that rallied the troops (the Sierra Club, the National Park Service, the Volcano Community Association, and the Pele Defense Fund) and through the courts stopped Campbell Estates and True Geothermal from their proposed geothermal development that was intended to be right up against Hawaii Volcanoes National Park. With wells literally less than a thousand feet, upwind, from Thurston Lava Tube and the state of the technology at the time (no reinjection wells) this would have been a nightmare. Although, even today with the development of the technology, preserving the Kahaualeʻa Natural Area Reserve, is imperative. As has been keeping the Volcano community from turning into an industrial hub.

More recently, with reinjection wells as demonstrated by PGV, I turned a 180 on my stance towards geothermal. Where without reinjection we had large “settling” ponds on the surface of Earth wherein toxic waste was discharged and left so that the water in them would evaporate and percolate back into the ground. These, as anyone that lived in Lower Puna in the early days of geothermal knows, were untenable. But reinjection changed all that and now, as proven by PGV, we are getting large amounts of electricity for a very small use of the land, and practically no toxic waste water, and no left over spent solar panels or turbine blades to throw away. 

Additionally, with the growing body of data we now know the ideal source of geothermal isn’t a volcano, but rather across vast swaths of otherwise unremarkable land. Earth’s interior is hot, and that heat is constantly venting almost uniformly from everywhere. So much so that one can drill a hole and within a few kilometers reach enough heat to run steam powered turbines. Anywhere.

For anyone interested in geothermal as an energy resource the US Department of Energy’s website provides a good starting point to explore its feasibility.. for instance their FAQ page at..

https://www.energy.gov/hgeo/geothermal/geothermal-faqs

Answers quite a few questions. One, which is the initial basis for any development, is what characteristics indicate a site might be good for geothermal power plant development? And the answer is..

Elements that indicate a site may be good for geothermal electricity development include hot subsurface geothermal fluid with low mineral and gas content, shallow aquifers for producing and reinjecting the fluid, a location eligible for permitting, proximity to existing transmission lines or load, and other characteristics. Geothermal fluid temperature should be at least 300°F/149°C, although plants can operate on fluid temperatures as low as 210°F/99°C.

And that is the ticket.. the presence of water at 300°F, which is widely available without a local heat source like a volcano. And still, with our volcanics, yes, we have an abundance of heat to begin with and some of it quite shallow. Although even PGV’s wells still tap into their resource at considerable depths of 5 and 6 plus kilometers.

Of course, for any resource the other question is can it be scaled up to meet our needs, now and into the future? Solar and wind, besides being toxic on their front end and creating mountains of waste on the back, need large quantities of land, and constant reinvestments.. and still are limited in how much they can grow. Whereas geothermal, which occupies a small footprint on the land, can create large amounts of energy, and be scaled up far beyond any perceivable needs long into the future.

Regarding posting etiquette, years ago Rob established a form of a link with some part of the linked article quoted. And while we can discuss the importance of having access to information behind paywalls to support a poster's premise, I think the link and quotes makes for a more enjoyable experience overall. And besides paywalls are there to protect copyright, and the holder's right to monetize it. Of course, in most cases archive.is/ does circumvent all that, it is still nice to keep the pages of PW to a nice digestible format. Rob also asked us not to quote other posts we are responding to at full length but rather quote a snippet and allow the reader to go back to the original if they wanted the info again. But some people think they have to repost the entirety of other's post so as to drive home a point.. which is silly methinks, and the flow of posts suffers because of it, imo, of course.