UKIRT To End Maunakea Operations September 15

[achutch3]

https://bigislandnow.com/2026/09/02/publ...ster-plan/

[randomq]

Colonizers, are the folks, you (I assume) and I, all of us that practice, who are the cultural descendants of those that brought private land ownership, private personal gain over the ohana, money, to these shores. It’s not as if it’s a choice, we all are living in, under the guise of, a modality that in essence is the outcome of the colonization of the islands.

It’s like the Hawaiians giving the missionaries the land because to the Hawaiians it was absurd to imagine people owned land. Land ownership, especially when juxtaposed to the concepts of Aloha, is a horror that’s been imposed upon the Hawaiians that even to this day they have to unravel, make peace with. A trauma many spend their lives working through. Psychologically it is devastating. The mind of the colonizer is contrary to the mind of the colonized. Its ways are incestuous, they permeate everything.

Maybe the best way to understand is to contemplate the difference between a mind raised with ʻŌlelo Hawaiʻi as its mother tongue verses one raised in English. The neural network created by either is incredibly different than the network created by the other. It’s not just a different word for the same thing, but different ways of looking at things entirely. Although, from an English perspective, as long as our ways are right to the viewer, it is probably impossible for them to comprehend the ways of the other. But, in a nutshell, it is colonization.

We're all cultural descendants of cavemen, royal subjects, revolutionaries, democratic citizens, etc...  Doesn't mean we inherit the sins of our forefathers along the way.  The best thing we can do now is treat everyone fairly, help lift up those in need, etc.  So when you use the term colonizer, you're basically accusing your neighbors of some kind of "original sin" they were born into.  I don't see how the accusation or the mindset helps any of us move forward.

There is a *huge* tendency to paint Hawaiians (and most other non-western pre-contact societies) as somehow having a magical commune with nature, balance with the ecosystem, having "everything figured out", "simpler and better lives", and living in peaceful harmony until contact with the outside world.  It's a load of bullshit.  People suffered, stole from each other, died from famine, were sent to meaningless wars to satisfy cruel ruler's egos, exploited the environment to the best of their abilities, caused species to go extinct, etc...  This is not dumping on any particular group; all cultures have done it and some continue to do it.

As HotPE pointed out, the average citizen these days has way more rights than someone living at the whim of the ali'i back in the day.  If there are problems with the system (like modern day ali'i hogging commercial land all to themselves, blocking development with endless regulations, and rent-seeking the rest of us to death) we should *unite* against them, instead of *dividing* into camps pointing fingers at each other based the color of our great grandfather's skin.  I'm pretty sure no one on this forum has inherited their billions in wealth from the colonizer or ali'i sides.  We're all just citizens.  Together.

[MyManao]

People suffered, stole from each other..

I am sorry to disagree, but you're imposing your perspective on the world around you.. when in fact, it's just your's. But hey, you are proving my point.. that's what haoles do. That's why all the pilikia on the mauna.

Although, you can learn..

Maybe start by reading Tales from the night rainbow = Moʻolelo o na pō mākole : the story of a woman, a people, and an island : an oral history Kaili’ohe’s stories of the ancient people, an oral history of Hawaii before the Aliis invaded. 

Which begins..

History, as anything else, is seen and understood by where a person stands on the mountain.

All people climb the same mountain. The mountain, however, has many pathways – each with a different view. A person knows and understands only what he sees from his own pathway, and as he moves, his view will change. Only when he reaches the top of the mountain will he see and understand all the views of mankind. But who among us has reached the top of the mountain? Tomorrow, we too will see a different view. We have not finished growing.

Most Hawaiian histories have been written from the pathways taken by foreigners who wrote Hawaiian history as they saw and believed things to be. It was not a Hawaiian view, or from a Hawaiian pathway. These stories I tell you are from a pathway taken by my family, on Moloka’i. They are the stories as told by Kai-akea to my teacher and beloved mother Ka’a kau Maka weliweli (whom I will refer to only as Maka weliweli) and she in turn taught to those of us who were part of her halau (school) in Kapualei.

The ancient ones were the people who were maoli (native) to Hawaii. Seven or eight hundred years ago the Tahitians came to our islands, and since then the stories of our origins and life have been dominated by their outlook. In many ways the Tahitians were a people similar to us, but in other ways we were as light is to the dark. The early ones lived with an attitude about life that gave them what we would call great mana (power) over their surroundings, but it is really the power of love and kinship working through the feelings of the objects we live among.

Seriously Q, there's a whole lot more to the world around you than you think. But hey, as I said, our neural networks, as built in our formative years, sets the tone and the limits.. at least until we make the effort to expand them.

[HiloJulie]

Why yes, that good old Hawaiian Kapu system was so understanding, compassionate and accepting of the commoner's transgressions against the King(s) and Chief(s) and went especially out of its way to treat women with such kindness, equality and respect.

[Punatang]

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

but you're imposing your perspective on the world around you.. 

Don’t all humans impose their perspective on the world?  And aren’t there multiple perspectives of the world everywhere in the world?  And pretty much the true believers claim theirs is the one true way, and all others are blind heretics, utilizing false neural networks, or any number of other infinite descriptions if you crack open a big fat thesaurus, and if anyone disagrees with their one true belief then they move on to an accurate explanation-is-lost-in-translation because a faulty upbringing doesn’t even include words and thoughts for the real true words and thoughts that properly describe the one and only correct world view?

Anybody find distributors of The Watchtower, or missionaries with thin ties, or Krishna’s at the airport any different?

Take the population of Puna.  That’s probably close to the number of world views in the district if the level of detail is fine enough and sufficiently specific.  And if you’re capable of overlooking the minutiae and able to see the broad strokes that can create a general grouping of people, then why stop there? Open your heart and your mind and recognize as randomq pointed out “We're all just citizens.  Together.”

[MyManao]

I’m always impressed with how hard you work to paddle your canoe Edge.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

I’m always impressed with how…

Easily you can dismiss anything that might not support your neural network belief system.  Always asking others to read books, open their minds, but never considering that possibility for yourself.

[MyManao]

your neural network belief system..

From.. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3722610/

Brain Development and the Role of Experience in the Early Years

Whose Summary begins..

In general, brain development begins a few weeks after conception and is thought to be complete by early adulthood. The basic structure of the brain is laid down primarily during the prenatal period and early childhood, and the formation and refinement of neural networks continues over the long term.* The brains’ many functions do not develop at the same time nor do their developmental patterns follow the same time frame. Although basic sensation and perception systems are fully developed by the time children reach kindergarten age, other systems such as those involved in memory, decision making, and emotion continue to develop well into childhood. The foundations of many of these abilities, however, are constructed during the early years.

Keep paddling brah..

Though, when you're up to it, I'd love to hear your take on the Tales from the night rainbow. Especially how the pre alii verses post alii periods differ so dramatically. Don't you wish the astronomy community would ponder such things as the nuances of their host's culture?

And, since we've been talking land and books and all like that, have you ever read Herb Kane's work? His Ancient Hawaii is a good start, and of course his art is wonderful, don't you think? I especially like his observation about land..

Because land was immortal, and humans mortal, the idea humans could own land was beyond imagining.

That says so much, don't you think?

* bold for emphasis by me.

[HiloJulie]

Although, you can learn..

Yes, we can learn that when you look at EVERY human culture, past and present, and you take out all the really bad stuff, what's left is pretty good. Kinda like what we do with the Bible. 

I'd love to hear everyone's take on this newly released book, Book Reveals Splendor, Brutality Of Kamehameha's Court, which, in part, reads:

"Īʻī’s uncle was serving as an assistant to King Kamehameha. ʻĪʻī was sent at age 10 to begin his service as an attendant to Kamehameha’s son and heir Liholiho.

It was risky duty, something the boy knew before he arrived at court. His own brother had been killed as a teenager for breaking court rules, ʻĪʻī wrote. His brother, lacking adequate alliances at court, had not been given enough food and, in his desperation, had traded a seed nut lei owned by Kamehameha for a few bowls of poi.

One of the king’s wives, Kaʻahumanu, saw the lei and told Kamehameha about the theft. The king questioned the boy, telling him what he had done was wrong. Soon afterward, court officials strangled the boy as punishment.

Yeah, says a lot that's for sure.