Cease building in Puna makai

[kalakoa]

HPIA isn't exactly "welfare" but it is a scam.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

But to ask the rest of us to subsidize them in their folly is wrong.
... - 14 minutes ago
HPIA isn't exactly "welfare" but it is a scam.

Like auto insurance is required by law, but if you want protection from someone who isn’t insured, here’s uninsured motorists coverage for your policy?

[eightfingers2.0]

I wouldn't call it state sponsored welfare. HPIA raised their rates to compensate for their losses in  2018.
The average home now costs north of $4000,00 per year and HPIA is the only source for new buyers.

4k, 5k, it don't matter how much, it's still state sponsored and forced upon all others across the state against their will. It's welfare, and it is wrong.

Either that, or we start making conventional loans, and state sponsored insurance, available to others who wish to take similar risks. Fair is fair, right?

How about the taro farmers in Waipio Valley? They can't get conventional loads for their property. They can't get any insurance. You might say, for god's sake they're in a river bed, who in their right mind would do that? Right?

No, for my money HPIA is the root of the problem. 

Silly people will do silly things. As they should be allowed to do. But to ask the rest of us to subsidize them in their folly is wrong.

ALL insurance works that way. People that don’t make a claim, subsidize those who do. It’s called “spreading the risk”.

[Chas]

I agree. But isn't there a point, which is what is being debated here, to which you say, "No, that's not a risk, it's foolish and too expensive to continue doing"?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

But isn't there a point, ...  it's foolish and too expensive to continue doing"?

Yes.
That’s at the point where the county approves a subdivision and it’s development. Could you call that government  sponsored welfare?  Allowing owners of otherwise worthless land to sell it at a big profit?

The insurance companies only insure what’s already approved to be built.

[MyManao]

The insurance companies only insure what’s already approved to be built.

I think the point is...

In 1990 Kalapana burned and all the private insurers said they would not underwrite investments in areas where lava inundation is likely. As a consequence the 1991 State Legislature created the Hawaii Property Insurance Agency (HPIA).

In theory HPIA was intended to be a nonprofit insurance carrier of “last resort,” formed to provide property insurance to those who lived in Lava Zones 1 and 2 and couldn’t get insurance on the private market. In practice it spawned major development where had the state not stepped in there would have been far less, as the investments in those areas would require cash, and self insurance, rather than conventional financing.

In other areas of high risk the state does not step in and require private industry give special consideration to a select group. They do not provide the same for those in flood zones. But here, for lava zones they flex their muscle and demand, under the threat of losing the right to do business in the state if one does not comply, that policies be written in LZ1 and LZ2.

As such the state is creating a situation in which people invest their lives, and plant and grow their dreams, in areas that are likely, documentable likely, to be inundated by lava. 

I can not imagine that this qualifies as good governance.

I wouldn't agree if the state said folks had to abandon, or could never live in, the area either. But, imo, to have responded to the private sector's response to Kalapana by creating HPIA, which in turn created a situation where hundreds of people lost so much, is the wrong approach to living with our active volcanoes.

I think HPIA should never have been formed, and it certain needs to go. Our system of governance is supposed to find a line between our freedoms and the management of our affairs, and in this instance I think they failed. And the 2018 eruption is a map of that failure.

I also think our government will continue to fail in this regard. Not so much because of incompetence but more because they are not comfortable facing up to their own complicity in creating the situation in the first place. All the way back to the creation of our subdivisions lies an almost endless collection of stories of self serving politicians more concerned with their own profits than actual governance. Nobody wants to air that much dirty laundry.

For further reading on the matter I suggest..

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/390...ster-worse

and, of course, Land and Power in Hawaii really is a must read for anyone interested in such matters...

https://uhpress.hawaii.edu/title/land-an...tic-years/

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

In other areas of high risk the state does not step in and require private industry give special consideration to a select group. 

It isn’t necessary for the state to step in for flood prone properties as an example.  The federal National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) covers that.  In places that flood more often than Puna has lava flows.  

There is no national lava insurance, that’s why the state responded to a need, a need created when Hawaii County approved Puna subdivisions.  With zoning and building codes, which made it sound reasonably safe when I bought a house here.

[ChunksterK]

"All the way back to the creation of our subdivisions lies an almost endless collection of stories of self serving politicians more concerned with their own profits than actual governance. Nobody wants to air that much dirty laundry." - MyManao

Indeed. I once asked Harry Kim about this in a face to face meeting. He agreed that the whole mess with the Puna subdivisions was created by powerful people who wanted to make a quick buck, thinking nobody would want to live in them. He then added with his best patronizing good old boy smile, "Of course, it would bankrupt the county to fix things now, so there's nothing we can do." His smile disappeared when I mentioned a class action suit as a possible remedy, but that has never happened. The subdivision "leaders" are too busy playing internal power games to band together for redress of common issues. And a state level suit might not even work because the Hawaii judiciary is well trained to step back and let the whole mess go on without interference. If you look at the history of some of the HPP lawsuits, you'll see what I mean. It's a litany of delay, send to worthless arbitration, go back to court, delay again, ad infinitum.

[kalakoa]

it would bankrupt the county to fix things now

Not all settlements are monetary.

The subdivision "leaders" are too busy playing internal power games to band together for redress of common issues.

Exactly. Get enough seats on the board, redirect the revenue from those mandatory road fees, force the residents to engage in pointless lawsuits. The subdivisions were created without accountability, and that is how they will stay.

[terracore]

Puna has the reputation of being the unwashed, welfare receiving, free lunch having, crime committing, under tarps living, Wild West of East Hawaii. That is why the politicians don't care. Until "we" can make them money, it's smile and "there's nothing we can do."

It will turnaround eventually. Most of our new neighbors in OLE are from wealthy parts of the mainland. They aren't a majority, but gentrification is happening whether us unwashed masses want it or not. Have you looked around? Pahoa has a MALL now. And drive-throughs soon to open.

The Soccer Moms are here.