Posts: 1,107
Threads: 41
Joined: May 2023
01-30-2024, 03:30 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2024, 08:05 AM by HiloJulie.)
In as much as there is simply no jet that can ever match the versatility of as well as the sheer uniqueness of the 747 and as much as I enjoyed flying on it, the one jet that truly made me turn into a bowl of jelly in sheer amazement was the 777.
I first flew the 777 in early 2000 from Maui to SFO. By that time United had already been flying the 777 for almost 5 years already on mostly international routes before they shifted the 777 to the long haul domestic routes.
To me the 777 was just so awe inspiring, it seems so much bigger than the 747 even though it is smaller, but when you realize that the diameter of each engine is about the same diameter as a 737 fuselage, it kind of makes your head spin!
That, and the “flex” of the wings upwards immediately after the nose wheel lifts off makes you feel a little bit uneasy!
But all in all, as much as I truly love the 747, if I can, nowadays I try to get on a 777!
Back in 1996, PBS did a 5 part documentary on the entire process of the 777, from initial design all the way to “delivery” of the first 777 to United. They even handed the United Captain sent to fly it back home with the “keys” and an “owner’s manual” which was brought on board on a hand truck!
If you’re really into aviation, search YouTube for 777 Development. All 5 episodes are free but kind of grainy but really interesting and fun to watch!
I’ve also been on the 787 but in as much as it’s nice, big and quiet and loaded with cool trinket lighting and all that, it did not impress me as much as the 777 sure did!
Keep your eyes peeled too here in Hawaii albeit Honolulu for now, but Hawaiian is expecting its first 787 any day now!
I’m shocked that Boeing after decades of being the best is going through so much trouble today. That 777 documentary shows that back in the 1990’s Boeing’s business management system was run by the engineers. Damn the cost, it was quality quality quality.
Shortly thereafter, Boeing’s business model changed to “enhanced shareholder value”, "stock buybacks" and bottom line profit. I think we are seeing today how that model works - especially for an airplane manufacturer.
Posts: 7,731
Threads: 685
Joined: Jun 2011
(01-30-2024, 03:30 AM)HiloJulie Wrote: I’m shocked that Boeing after decades of being the best is going through so much trouble today. That 777 documentary shows that back in the 1990’s Boeing’s business management system was run by the engineers. Damn the cost, it was quality quality quality.
Shortly thereafter, Boeing’s business model changed to “enhanced shareholder value”, "stock buybacks" and bottom line profit. I think we are seeing today how that model works - especially for an airplane manufacturer.
It was after they merged with McDonnell Douglas. After MD got managed into the ground they merged with Boeing and kept MDs crappy method of running the company.
Posts: 1,107
Threads: 41
Joined: May 2023
Couldn’t agree more!
Ironically, CNN just posted this:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/30/business/...index.html
Posts: 10,212
Threads: 344
Joined: Apr 2009
The 787 is a much more pleasant experience than the 777 in terms of noise and atmosphere but I agree the 777 was and is a great plane. The 747 remains iconic (a bit like Concorde but with much cheaper tickets). I never managed to fly in the upper cabin before Covid made it so unprofitable to keep flying for most airlines. However, I have flown In the upper cabin of an Airbus 380 and nothing can beat it for quietness and comfort despite it being so ugly. Quick tip - if you ever find yourself on an A380 and like window seats for the view, book a seat at the front or back of the plane. The wing is enormous and most seats in the middle don't get a great view; unless you like looking at the wing.
I've not flown on the A350 which is a direct competitor to the 777 but I want to, just to see what it's like, but options are limited in Hawaii. In the meantime, I'm certainly starting to have concerns about booking a flight on any 737 max model, and the 737-900ER which inspections have shown has the same plug door issue as the maxes.
https://www.npr.org/2024/01/22/122609350...gs-737-900
Posts: 4,902
Threads: 83
Joined: Feb 2009
The 737-900ER has been in service for 17 years. I don't see it as having a problem. Delta inspected their entire fleet before the FAA recommend inspections. The problem with the Max 9 has been corrected too.
Posts: 10,212
Threads: 344
Joined: Apr 2009
(02-02-2024, 04:08 AM)Obie Wrote: The 737-900ER has been in service for 17 years. I don't see it as having a problem. Delta inspected their entire fleet before the FAA recommend inspections. The problem with the Max 9 has been corrected too.
I'm not convinced the problem with the Max 9 has been corrected at all.
""FAA Halts Boeing MAX Production Expansion to Improve Quality Control, Also Lays Out Extensive Inspection and Maintenance Process to Allow Boeing 737-9 MAX Aircraft to Return to Service"
Wednesday, January 24, 2024
WASHINGTON – The Jan. 5 Boeing 737-9 MAX incident must never happen again. Accordingly, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is announcing additional actions to ensure every aircraft is safe. The FAA today informed Boeing it will not grant any production expansion of the MAX, including the 737-9 MAX. This action comes on top of the FAA’s investigation and ramped up oversight of Boeing and its suppliers. The FAA today also approved a thorough inspection and maintenance process that must be performed on each of the grounded 171 Boeing 737-9 MAX aircraft. Upon successful completion, the aircraft will be eligible to return to service.
“We grounded the Boeing 737-9 MAX within hours of the incident over Portland and made clear this aircraft would not go back into service until it was safe,” FAA Administrator Mike Whitaker said. “The exhaustive, enhanced review our team completed after several weeks of information gathering gives me and the FAA confidence to proceed to the inspection and maintenance phase.
“However, let me be clear: This won’t be back to business as usual for Boeing. We will not agree to any request from Boeing for an expansion in production or approve additional production lines for the 737 MAX until we are satisfied that the quality control issues uncovered during this process are resolved.”
The FAA approved this detailed set of inspection and maintenance instructions after a thorough review of data from 40 inspections of grounded planes. The FAA also convened a Corrective Action Review Board (CARB). The CARB, made up of safety experts, scrutinized and approved the inspection and maintenance process.
Following the completion of the enhanced maintenance and inspection process on each aircraft, the door plugs on the 737-9 MAX will be in compliance with the original design which is safe to operate. This aircraft will not operate until the process is complete and compliance with the original design is confirmed."
https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-halts-b...-extensive
The 737-900ER has the same type of plug door which went through the same process, so it's not surprising those aircraft need inspections as well.
Posts: 1,107
Threads: 41
Joined: May 2023
It would be interesting to know of all the 737MAX jets that were found to have loose door plug bolts, what was their respective build dates.
During the height of COVID, Boeing slashed workers faster than Freddie Kruger ever could, of which were mostly senior, experienced, and union affiliated staff.
The Alaska 737MAX that had the incident was delivered in October of 2023 - just 2 months old at the time of the incident.
Posts: 10,212
Threads: 344
Joined: Apr 2009
Boeing uses a separate company to build the fuselages of the max and install the plug doors. Apparently, the safety protocols at Boeing and the other company are different, and things aren't checked correctly. See
https://youtu.be/XhRYqvCAX_k?si=e0yC3KknqqiYHEtX
As for the older 737-900ER, see
https://youtu.be/yKX0ydWYDzc?si=3fyteEqePTgQEt1y
Posts: 1,107
Threads: 41
Joined: May 2023
I like that guy's YT videos. I watch him often!
And yes, I do agree - ANY 737-variant using the same door plug design should be inspected.
However, and while this has not been officially verified or proven, but 2 whistleblowers have come forward claiming that Boeing removed the door on that specific Alaska jet after it had been received from Spirit AeroSystems.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/bo...max-9-jet/
And yes, clearly there is a complete disarray of QA/QC/Safety disciplines within Boeing and its major suppliers/sub-contractors.
But interestingly enough, Spirit AeroSystems was once Boeing, "spun off" in 2005 as a separate entity making Boeing show a huge gain to inflate its stock and Spirit AeroSystems becoming Boeings main supplier. Having said that, you would think at least a company that was once Boeing would have no problems adapting to a uniform QA/QC/Safety discipline, but I guess not.
At least Spirit fired its CEO recently. Boeing has to revamp its leadership from top to bottom, putting the engineers back in charge if its ever to re-right this perveribal ship, or get used to Airbus jets more and more. United's already talking about it.
Posts: 10,212
Threads: 344
Joined: Apr 2009
02-02-2024, 10:23 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2024, 10:27 AM by TomK.)
(02-02-2024, 10:03 AM)HiloJulie Wrote: However, and while this has not been officially verified or proven, but 2 whistleblowers have come forward claiming that Boeing removed the door on that specific Alaska jet after it had been received from Spirit AeroSystems.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/bo...max-9-jet/
I think that was addressed in the first video I posted. Boeing removed the door but it didn't count as being removed, only opened, so it wasn't checked properly after it was put back.
https://youtu.be/XhRYqvCAX_k?t=249
|
