The Bicker Board

[HiloJulie]

"I was there 3000 years ago on the slopes of the Mount BBS's"

I have a feeling it went more like this:

[Kiana]

This bicker board is great. Many thanks to My 2 Cents for starting this!

There is some excellent bickering going on. I'm grabbing my popcorn and will await the coming attractions, or, sequels. :-)

[HiloJulie]

Putting a geothermal power plant in the middle of a residential neighborhood is a grossly incompetent as one can get when there are numerous other places much more suitable.

Oh yeah? Wow, I had no idea. Maybe you'd like to tell us where? And, while you're at it, please explain the history of geothermal here. Where it began, and how it developed into what we have now. Sheesh, you might want to recount the many court cases, the contested case hearings, the different organizations and the National Park's role in all this. Literally, whatever happened to Puna Geothermal Committee? Didn't they turn into a political action group? Or was that just Russell's thing?

Moved here to the bicker board where it belongs. 

My reply:

Perhaps maybe read my first two paragraphs.

As for rehashing the malfeasance, incompetence, greed and arrogance from the first lava rock touched to be what is today’s geothermal energy here on this island is pointless. 

The point of me saying “if done right” clearly has gone completely over your head. 

As for where geothermal could go, you would know that if you had any knowledge about geothermal power here on this island. 

Perhaps maybe reading what I have said and then formulating your response to what was said is a far better way to communicate instead of formulating your response before you ever read one word of what I said. 

Just saying.

ETA: First step at solving geothermal issues here, is to get HELCO/HECO/HE out of the way entirely.

[kalianna]

The anti-PGV squadron lost me at "Free Pele" Pele donʻt need no help. Sheʻs free as can be. Iʻve also spoken to an auntie who is very active in the anti-PGV movement. She places the blame for her young daughterʻs death from whooping cough squarely on living in close proximity to PGV. I asked her if the child had been vacccinated. She said no.

[HiloJulie]

The anti-PGV squadron lost me at "Free Pele"  Pele donʻt need no help.  Sheʻs free as can be.  Iʻve also spoken to an auntie who is very active  in the anti-PGV movement.  She places the blame for her young daughterʻs death from whooping cough squarely on living in close proximity to PGV.  I asked her if the child had been vacccinated.  She said no.

As Gomer Pyle would say “surprise surprise!”

We agree kalianna! We AGREE!!!!!

YAHOO!!! (Note the extensive use of exclamation points and ALL CAPS!)

I’m just pure giddy!

[MyManao]

Perhaps maybe reading what I have said and then formulating your response to what was said is a far better way to communicate instead of formulating your response before you ever read one word of what I said. 

Ok, I get it, and standby every time I ever suggested you might not be firing on all cylinders. I answered you, concisely, using terms and in reference to things that have happened here since the inception of geothermal as a possible alternative source of energy. Yet, it was/is all over your head.. just gobbledygook you suggest was written without consideration of your post. When in fact you have no idea of the things you are going on about.

What do you know about the early exploration? How geothermal was in the neighborhood long before 99% of the people that bitch about were? Yeah I know, you're a frickin' bot spitting out search results just like any ol' bot should.. but do you know about Campbell Estate's involvement? How about the wood chipping area and the back door effort to bulldoze an illegal road into.. or the land swap? Do you have any idea of the roles Kahauale'a, Kupaianaha, and Wao Kele o Puna played in how geothermal ended up being developed where it is? Or, why True came up dry in the middle of the East Rift? Are you hip to the fact that the NPS was a party to the legal challenges to geothermal? Can you recount how the geothermal sub-zone land designation came into being? And how everyone that builds in, developes their hopes and dreams in, the sub-zone already are on notice that geothermal may happen there? I mean, come on, you know that right?

Or maybe, since you like to go on about stuff, you can tell us why when the Volcano Community Association and Puna Geothermal Committee, while they were in the middle of their court battles over the matter and met with all the subdivisions in lower Puna telling them what was coming and asking for their involvement in steering it were told they weren't interested? Like literally, it was spelled out, and the folks makai didn't want to be bothered.

And yet you waddle in here and say..

First and foremost, I will say that the geothermal power to date here on this island has been the textbook example of gross incompetence, greed and sheer stupidity. Coupled with the "deity" issues.

Putting a geothermal power plant in the middle of a residential neighborhood is a grossly incompetent as one can get when there are numerous other places much more suitable.

You said that, I asked you where? And instead of answering you continue to attack me.. fine. That's who you are.

All without knowing the reasons things are as you find them. Because, if you did, you'd never say the things you do. Period. And yet, all the while, you appear incapable of acknowledging your own shortcomings.. in other words, you continue to make my point. Over and over and over... type, hit send.. and over again.

[HiloJulie]

Perhaps maybe reading what I have said and then formulating your response to what was said is a far better way to communicate instead of formulating your response before you ever read one word of what I said. 

Ok, I get it, and standby every time I ever suggested you might not be firing on all cylinders. I answered you, concisely, using terms and in reference to things that have happened here since the inception of geothermal as a possible alternative source of energy. Yet, it was/is all over your head.. just gobbledygook you suggest was written without consideration of your post. When in fact you have no idea of the things you are going on about.

What do you know about the early exploration? How geothermal was in the neighborhood long before 99% of the people that bitch about were? Yeah I know, you're a frickin' bot spitting out search results just like any ol' bot should.. but do you know about Campbell Estate's involvement? How about the wood chipping area and the back door effort to bulldoze an illegal road into.. or the land swap? Do you have any idea of the roles Kahauale'a, Kupaianaha, and Wao Kele o Puna played in how geothermal ended up being developed where it is? Are you hip to the fact that the NPS was a party to the legal challenges to geothermal? Can you recount how the geothermal sub-zone land designation came into being? And how everyone that builds in, developes their hopes and dreams in, the sub-zone already are on notice that geothermal may happen there? I mean, come on, you know that right?

And yet you waddle in here and say..

First and foremost, I will say that the geothermal power to date here on this island has been the textbook example of gross incompetence, greed and sheer stupidity. Coupled with the "deity" issues.

Putting a geothermal power plant in the middle of a residential neighborhood is a grossly incompetent as one can get when there are numerous other places much more suitable.

You said that, I asked you where? And instead of answering you continue to attack me.. fine. That's who you are.

All without knowing the reasons things are as you find them. Because, if you did, you'd never say the things you do. Period. And yet, all the while, you appear incapable of acknowledging your own shortcomings.. in other words, you continue to make my point. Over and over and over... type, hit send.. and over again.

The reasons geothermal power has failed on this island are too numerous to list. And being really clear here, but the true fact of the matter is that in the past - and even to some extent - the present - Hawaii and its people - were brutally raped over geothermal - mostly by mainland greedy investors - but with the help of some pretty influential native Hawaiians. That is a fact and is unarguable. But, as I say below, irrelevant.

Everything done to date from day one has been wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. And you can multiply what I just said in that last sentence times a million and still not even be close to the reality of what was done as being wrong.

But at this point as it relates to climate change is irrelevant. As the saying goes, you can't put toothpaste back into the tube.

Having said that, numerous sites have been identified as possible locations for competently run and managed geothermal sites. Nowhere near any living human. Such as Humu’ula area on Maunakea and Upper Kawaihae on Kohala. And as further outlined here in this Fancy Embedded Link.

Further, and despite her stance on TMT, I think Mililani Trask has a pretty good insight as to what competently run and managed geothermal power could be. Having said that, I don't think she is in any way qualified to run anything geothermal related but can see its promise and usefulness.

As I have mentioned before, if you paid any attention, we need a paradigm shift in thinking. Whatever happened in the past with geothermal here - in every sense of the word - and maybe since everyone thinks that typing in all caps is shouting - BUT MAYBE I NEED TO SCREAM AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS but rehashing how Hawaii - and more importantly - how its people got raped over geothermal over that of what geothermal could AND SHOULD be - has never been seen here - primarily due to the "low bid" "my hands in your pocket" "wink wink, look the other way" and other corrupt nefarious ways geothermal has been managed compounded with the forced involvement of a utility incapable of managing its own self owned generation and distribution system.

If geothermal power here on this island was in any way shape or form competently run and managed, no one would know it even existed.

Now, before you "type, hit send.. and over again." - enjoy a little fun!

[MyManao]

Blah blah blah..

You said the past is f*cked.

I pointed out you have no idea what you are talking about.

You say the past don't matter.

You just go on to hear yourself blah blah blah.. and that's fine. 

I'm tired of interacting with it.

Good luck

[HiloJulie]

I admit I am wrong 100%. HiloJulie is 100% correct in every sense of the word.

How do you like it when someone uses the “quote function” and then changes what was actually said?

Continue to bicker away!

[leilanidude]

HiloJulie Wrote:
Putting a geothermal power plant in the middle of a residential neighborhood is a grossly incompetent as one can get when there are numerous other places much more suitable.
---------------
The geothermal plant is in the perfect spot for it. The neighborhood is the thing that is in the wrong spot. Allowing a neighborhood to be literally on top of an active rift zone, was the incompetent decision.