Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045

[Punatang]

Cigarette ashes
Carbon stinky in the air
Earth chokes on foul smoke

[MyManao]

Can you give this little inquiring mind a brief synopsis of where you stand on the current PGV situation and the future of geothermal..

My thoughts on geothermal..

When it was first proposed.. well, when Campbell first ganged up with the state and proposed major development, the plan was to start with 500 megawatts and an undersea cable to transfer most of that to Oahu. And, on top of that there was a proposed deep sea mining and Manganese smelting plant in Kawaihae that wanted hundreds of megawatts as well. Keep in mind the entire South Kohala coast was undeveloped, and instead of hotels some envisioned major industrialization around the harbor.

So, with no regards for the environment the developers were proposing wells right up to the edge of the National Park. Literally wells within 1,000 feet of Thurston Lava Tube. And, back then, reinjection wells as a way to contain the leftover brine wasn’t a standard, and other places on the planet had already been destroyed by the waste discharged, so yeah, I was pretty strong against that proposal. And in a soundbite kind of way that meant against geothermal. Although, specifically, I was against the plan as it was proposed.

We, our island, didn’t need 500 megawatts, and the undersea transmission cable by itself was a challenge at that time. But the challenges posed by the currents at depth in the ‘Alenuihaha Channel are another thing entirely. And turning Kawaihae into a major heavy metals industrial park that supported sentiment plumes raining down in our ocean as an excuse to destroy Kahauale’a and create a riot of invasive species on the border of the national park collectively encouraged me to become active against the proposal. And because the state and all the other players were biting off more than anyone could swallow we prevailed. 

Since then? I watched True's failed attempt in the Middle East Rift because they couldn’t humble themselves and work cooperatively with HVO, and I watched the makai community, after insisting they didn’t care become concerned themselves, and I have watched the geothermal industry and the needs of the state evolve. And in a much saner, more natural evolution I have watched Ormat be a good contribution to our local needs, and prove the safety and cleanliness of their technology. And at this point I would support powering the entire state with geothermal.

I wouldn’t suggest that there is all that is needed to do so in Lower Puna, and I wouldn’t suggest running the people that want it to be otherwise out of the way to make it so. Even if everyone was out of the way Puna is not ideal in that it is unstable. But as we saw, in the face of incredible odds, absolutely incredible odds, PGV is standing, and serving us, peacefully, and at almost no cost. And I too hope they thrive, and expand. In other words, it sure looks like that’s where Pele wants them to be.

But geothermal's potential is not in Lower Puna. It’s the furthest away from where the power is needed, it’s already a bedroom community to Hilo, and it is an active volcano. Every one of those points suggest geothermal could not mature into a full blown industry in Lower Puna alone.

I have always favored what I refer to as the backside, the east side, of Hualalai. It’s nowhere near any development, it’s a direct route to the coast, and the best point to enter the water, and avoid the channel forces as much as possible. And, equally as important, it's a stable resource. But of course as soon as the state started looking in that direction someone put a stop to it. I suspect the major land owner in the area, Kam Schools, may have had something to say about it. But I don't know.

There are other areas, and an undersea cable need not be a critical part of having geothermal throughout the state. I don’t know specifics but have seen all sorts of variations on the technology advance over the years. To that end, and a good chunk of how this all got started was the work done by the Institute of Geophysics @ UH, of which geochem was a major player. Their initial work in identifying the geothermal potential throughout the state was published as a map in 1983, and can be viewed here..

https://evols.library.manoa.hawaii.edu/s...cd/content

And now, so many years later, there are reams of resources and many in map form. Here’s a really good list of them from the Hawaii Groundwater and Geothermal Resources Center..

https://www.higp.hawaii.edu/hggrc/projec...al-maps-2/

But yeah, overall, I think the gov should declare a major push to bring it online. We could actually reach our commitments to those kids if we do. And then, the thing about that brine.. In Iceland it’s a tourist attraction.

[kalianna]

Thanks. But that wasnʻt brief. :-)

[HiloJulie]

@MyMano

Didn’t quote your two very long missives, so I could save space and burn less carbon on the PunaWeb Server farm, but I did read them. 

So to consolidate what you said, I think it can be summed up as follows:

Original development of geothermal power on Hawaii island was rife with problems, a total disregard of the environment, land and the people coupled with unrealistic promises, greed and a “eff you” mentally. 

However, today, with much more stringent regulations, far better technology which is evolving better every day coupled with Ormat’s proven track record of competent management of geothermal power it’s the best thing since sliced bread. 

Gee, I wonder who’s been saying that all along?

[MyManao]

Thanks.  But that wasnʻt brief. :-)

Yeah, I found the dichotomy between the soundbite anti to a staunch proponent of needed a bridge to span the gap.. the years..

I was sorta hoping True would have found a footing here. But they were the one part of the whole story that does give outsiders credit for their contribution to the dysfunction that otherwise is pretty much inbred in this yarn. But True, being an oil drilling company, just showed up and employed the things they knew from drilling on the mainland, and had no basalt, or geothermal, experience. And they had no-one that knew the geology of the area they were drilling in. They didn't fail because of greed as some seem to imply, but rather the inability to humble themselves enough ask HVO for some guidance.

Otherwise, like I said, Ormat has done right by us and I hope further development is a part of their plans.

[leilanidude]

MyManao said:
And yes, I'd love to see geothermal tripled or even quadrupled in size. And there are also other areas where it could be developed. However, having said that, if geothermal were to be done in any other place other than where it is right now, the grid tie in would add a whole new layer of complexity.

Otherwise, like I said, Ormat has done right by us and I hope further development is a part of their plans.
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Agreed.

How does taking this position pit you now, against the vocal few, including (her initials only) S.S. and friends?

As often as they attack others who do not agree with their anti-geothermal everything stance, have you become part of their attacks as well?

[ironyak]

punikahakaiferret - Not to feed dragons ...

ferret walks lightly, 
basks in sun and gathers seeds,
wisdom amongst fools

Punatang - Words overflow, but ...

Gazing at surface
just reflects one own visage.
To know depth, dive in!

[HiloJulie]

MyManao said:
And yes, I'd love to see geothermal tripled or even quadrupled in size. And there are also other areas where it could be developed. However, having said that, if geothermal were to be done in any other place other than where it is right now, the grid tie in would add a whole new layer of complexity.

Otherwise, like I said, Ormat has done right by us and I hope further development is a part of their plans.
----------
Agreed.

How does taking this position pit you now, against the vocal few, including (her initials only) S.S. and friends?

As often as they attack others who do not agree with their anti-geothermal everything stance, have you become part of their attacks as well?

I would like to clarify that the first paragraph of your “quote” of MyMano is from me from the bicker thread and is not from MyMano as stated.

[MyManao]

MyManao said:
Otherwise, like I said, Ormat has done right by us and I hope further development is a part of their plans.
----------
Agreed.

How does taking this position pit you now, against the vocal few, including (her initials only) S.S. and friends?

As often as they attack others who do not agree with their anti-geothermal everything stance, have you become part of their attacks as well?

I can't imagine being 'pitted' against anything. Really, I had no idea anyone still cared. It's over. Pele spoke.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

It's over. Pele spoke.

Argue over words
Written, spoken in English
Will translate lava (for gin)
Last line edited, re-edited after I recounted, and read Punatang’s response

Added:
First line five five five 
Second line seven seven 
What line am I on?