HISTORY AS PROMISED

[My 2 cents]

I don't want to spend much time on this but to clarify, the insurance companies, i.e. the experts, have determined that it's too risky to do business in those areas. The state should not be in the insurance business.

I don't agree with not allowing development there. But it should be at their own risk, not mine.

[Punatang]

The state should not be in the insurance business.   it should be at their own risk, not mine.

I'm assuming you don't want to spend time on it My 2 Cents, because you realized you aren't really sure of what you are talking about. The state is not in the insurance business and HPIA presents no risk to you.  HPIA customers pay 300-400% as much for their high risk insurance as an owner of a comparable house in LZ3 might pay.

https://www.hpiainfo.com/coverage-information/faq/

Q: Is The HPIA a state agency?

The HPIA is a nonprofit unincorporated association of all licensed insurers that write property and casualty insurance in Hawaii. Each insurer is required to be a member of the HPIA as a condition of their authority to transact business in the State. Each member insurer participates in the writings, expenses, profits, and losses of the HPIA in proportion to their market share of property and casualty insurance written in Hawaii. There is no public funding or taxpayers’ monies involved.

[My 2 cents]

It’s true, I am not as informed on this as I should be to discuss it.  I stand corrected.

With that in mind, getting back to MyManao’s post and the topic at hand, if indeed “there is no public funding or taxpayers’ monies involved”, then we are back to Puna never getting a fair piece of the pie.  And I’m still not clear on how all other areas throughout the state can have county roads, but if Puna did that it would mean bankruptcy for the county.

[Patricia]

Aloha. Getting back to history... Most Puna subdivisions were not only approved with the only requirement being substandard roads. But in the '70s, when a voluntary community association took HPP Owners to court and sued them, Hawaii County made sure to exempt themselves from any road responsibility "for perpetuity." Not only that, but the County and the State have used the Paradise Hui Hanalike court case as the reason, excuse, justification, for just about any similar case that has been brought to the Hawaii courts. In addition, the Paradise Hui Hanalike court case is mentioned in just about every bill that has anything to do with "substandard roads and substandard subdivisions" brought before the State Legislature.

And on the subject of insirance- Hawaii County is self-insured. The police must insure their own vehicles. Workers comp is insured through the County. Just about everything is. Everything the County needs to insure, because it is economically advantageous for them to do it this way. So, why do you think they are insuring LZ1 and LZ2? Think about it. The insurance amounts they dish out would not cover the rebuilding of many of the homes/properies that are in LZ1 and LZ2. And the County is not giving that insurance away for free. The County, somewhere, is getting their's.

[My 2 cents]

….Hawaii courts….State Legislature….

And this is why any correction to the matter (i.e., class action lawsuit) would have to name the county AND THE STATE and be held in FEDERAL COURT.

[MyManao]

There is no public funding or taxpayers’ monies involved.

Wrong, every insurance policy written across the state is higher in cost because of the higher costs HPIA imposes.. If you're insured anywhere you're forced to pay a fee to support others in their desire to live in danger zones. It really is a racket in which the state forces everyone to give money to people that are foolish enough to live where a regular insurance company would not write policies. The state has created a special class of citizen and is forcing everyone else to underwrite their folly. It is completely unconstitutional BS. But then creating the subdivisions in the first place was too. I can't wait until this all ends up in court.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

the state forces everyone to give money to people that are foolish enough

HPIA is only one of the many many ways you can finish this comment.

[MyManao]

Why do you feel Puna gets too much?

From a civil planning, land use perspective Hawaii Island is a special case. We have active volcanoes and as such imposing a standard perspective, such as state or federal standards of land use and planning isn’t tenable. We can’t have a one size fits all system when in fact we have active volcanoes. But god knows we try.

By my measure, if we sat down and logically analyze the situation and include preventing disasters as a priority we would not have ever allowed for the wholesale domestication of our volcano landscapes. It’s that simple. We made, our forefathers made, a horrible mistake. In other words, Most of Kilauea, and a good chunk of Mauna Loa, and all of Hualalai would be limited in growth and extremely limited in government investment in infrastructure and such. Basically the entire southern side of our island should be a nature preserve, not a free for all one size fits all cookie cutter American dream on the cheap. 

And that’s what it is, cheap land for people that can’t afford otherwise who are suckered into taking risks they can’t afford.. and a government that does nothing to protect them, and even goes so far as to underwrite their folly.

At the very least HPIA needs to go and the market place, the inability to get insurance and the trickle down effect on the availability of mortgages, needs to be allowed to have its effects. But beyond that government needs to start answer for its inability to provide the services they obligate themselves to when they collect taxes. In other words, protect the citizens, which they don’t, at all. Otherwise the Hub would not have had to exist. Otherwise CD would have had more to say to HOVE than they’d tell them which way to turn on the highway, if they could get to the highway at all, in a Mauna Loa crisis on that side.

I could go on.. but hey, you all know the story.

[Punatang]

Mymanao - Wrong, every insurance is the spreading of risk. Many of us find it quite irritating that "the state" forces us to subsidize the ACA and Medicare health insurance of obese smokers who are suckered into eating nothing but highly processed food and sitting on their okole all day drinking God knows what out of aluminum cans hypnotized by nonsense on the boob box. Is that constitutional? You must believe that Medicare and ACA need to go too, right? Or should we be forced to underwrite their folly? Should we have to pay a fee because those people choose to live dangerously? 
 
Insurance is the spreading of risk. It is the function of the states to regulate the insurance industry. You are free not to buy it. The eight (8) P&C insurers that make up HPIA are free to exit the marketplace at any time. That is why it is totally constitutional, and you are wrong. 
 
I thought you were anti-capitalist anyway. You don't seem to like socialism either. Have you finished that new system yet so that we can get The Punaweb Bar and Grill opened? We want our free beer!

[Patricia]

Aloha all...
It would seem that the conversation has strayed just a bit off topic? Not sure what insurance has to do with HPP history. Still, everyone is entitled to their opinion on that subject.
My opinion is that the history regarding the development of Puna (not just HPP) was to the advantage (still is) of Hawaii County. That said, everything Hawaii County does is somehow to their advantage.