Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs

[Patricia]

This is Punaweb. Supposedly, a lot of info about Puna. So, here goes:

If you live in a substandard subdivision in Puna, Hawaii, or if you are planning on moving to a substandard subdivision in Puna, Hawaii, there are a few facts you may want to know:

1. Unless your substandard subdivision has a Declaration and CC&Rs, which they have filed with the Hawaii Bureau of Conveyances, then your substandard subdivision is not a homeowners association, nor a planned community. What your substandard subdivision most likely IS is a community with private roads, which more than likely you own along with your neighbors.

2. Many substandard subdivisions in Puna, Hawaii, were thrown together without any other plan than to sell lots and make money. If your substandard subdivision has an "association" that is not an HOA or planned community, then what you will probably be "funding" is a road association, whose sole purpose is to maintain the substandard subdivision roads. In most substandard subdivisions in Puna, Hawaii, funding a ROAD association is mandatory.

3. Some of the substandard subdivisions in Puna, Hawaii (if they are not an HOA or planned community) have, in addition to a road association, a voluntary community association. Unlike road associations, owners are not required to join or fund a voluntary community association. So, if you do not wish to pay for anything other than road maintenance, then you are not required to do so.

4. In some substandard subdivisions in Puna, Hawaii, a voluntary community association may not be forthcoming and will not share with you the differences that legally, and according to the State of Hawaii, constitute a mandatory HOA or planned community. That said, sometimes, the  voluntary community associations will not disclose to you that while you may be required to pay them mandatory road maintenance fees, you are not required, BY LAW, to be members of their voluntary community associations.

5. To protect yourself from non-disclosure and confusion regarding these voluntary community associations in substandard subdivisions, in Puna, Hawaii, you can do the following:
a) When presented with your property title search, check to see what type of encumberances are listed and if there are easements listed (sometimes many) ASK about them.
b) When signing your paperwork in escrow, note to see if you are presented with, or if there is any mention of a Declaration and CC&Rs. These documents should be made known to you if they exist.
c) Check out your deed. Does your deed state any owner use or restrictions? If not, the community association (not to be confused with road association) in your substandard subdivision, in Puna, Hawaii, is not an HOA, or planned community and you do not have to be a member if you do not wish to be.

Summary:
Road easements are not "common areas," such as parks, swimming pools, fitness rooms, etc. Road easements are a piece of property that allows a person to use another person's property to get from one place (usually their home) to another (main, public roads). There are LOTS of road easements in the State of Hawaii.
Paying toward the maintenance of road easements is fair, and there are legal precedent for this.
Being coerced into being a member of a voluntary community association is not fair, nor is it legal, and their is NO U.S. law or case law that will support that practice.

In Close:
If you live in a substandard subdivision in Puna, Hawaii, or if you are planning on moving to a substandard subdivision in Puna, Hawaii, ASK QUESTIONS because what you are paying for, to whom, and why matters.
If ALL you are supposed to be paying for is road maintenance, then that should be VERY CLEAR.

***In Puna, Hawaii County, a developer creating a planned community and establishing an HOA (Homeowner Association) is required to file a "Declaration of Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions" (CC&Rs) along with Articles of Incorporation, which are considered the primary governing documents, outlining the rights and responsibilities of both the association and homeowners, all under the state law governing planned community associations, Chapter 421J of the Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS)."***
(As per the County of Hawaii- please note the "required to file")

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

When signing your paperwork in escrow, note to see if you are presented with, or if there is any mention of a Declaration and CC&Rs.

And then what? Refuse to sign the documents? Sign the documents but ask the association to break down the specifics of the road maintenance fee? Pay part of it and get a lien slapped on your property?

[Patricia]

When signing your paperwork in escrow, note to see if you are presented with, or if there is any mention of a Declaration and CC&Rs.

And then what? Refuse to sign the documents? Sign the documents but ask the association to break down the specifics of the road maintenance fee?  Pay part of it and get a lien slapped on your property?

As I said, ask questions. There is no reason for buyers and property owners to have to just accept whatever they are told. Real estate involves a lot of contractual law. Ask to see what is expected from you and why. Conversely, ask what you are guaranteed and should expect in return.

Road maintenance, in most substandard Puna, Hawaii subdivisions is mandatory. You buy. You pay for ROAD MAINTENANCE. 
But voluntary community associations (anything more than roads) cannot FORCE you to sign anything.

[Moderator 2]

As I said, ask questions. 

And if we ask all those questions, then what?  
I have another question.  If the HPPOA slaps a lien on my property, what are the fines, penalties, interest, and cost to have the lien removed?

[MyManao]

As I said, ask questions. 

Ok, I have one. Why should anyone believe a word you post?

[Patricia]

As I said, ask questions. 

Ok, I have one. Why should anyone believe a word you post?

I have never told anyone or even suggested that anyone should believe anything I, any of you, or anyone else TELLS them. 

By all means, look it up. Then we can discuss what you think you know.

[HiloJulie]

So let me ask you a few questions Patricia:

1. Did you or did you not know ANY of your facts as presented, from number 1 through 5c BEFORE you purchased your property and/or home in HPP? 

2. If not, then why not?

3. If yes, then why did you buy?

4. I assume that your reason for living in the property and/or home you bought in HPP is for your retirement. As such, how can you, why do you and why would you desire to spend your "golden years" fighting this seemingly endless fight you so seemingly and endlessly desire to fight?

5. If you could wave a magic wand, what would you do that would make you AND everyone else that lives in HPP happy as my dog Barney when I give him his favorite treat for the following topics:
A. Roads
B. Mail delivery (consistent with all applicable USPS standards)
C. HPPOA (or whatever name they were/are/should be) structure, functions and recourse against noncompliance.

I ask that your answers be answers, not convoluted and retorted questions back at me to answer. Please just answer the questions as I have asked them with sentences ending in periods.

Thanking you in advance, 

Julie

---

As I said, ask questions. 

Ok, I have one. Why should anyone believe a word you post?

Ok, I have one. Why should anyone believe a word you post?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Patricia,
Just so we all know how much money we’re talking about here in dollars and cents, how much of the HPPOA Road Maintenance fee do you consider road maintenance and how much is non road maintenance?  Do you pay the entire maintenance fee? If not, how much do you pay, in dollars and cents?

“It’s the principle of the thing” is not an answer.

[Patricia]

So let me ask you a few questions Patricia:

1. Did you or did you not know ANY of your facts as presented, from number 1 through 5c BEFORE you purchased your property and/or home in HPP? 

2. If not, then why not?

3. If yes, then why did you buy?

4. I assume that your reason for living in the property and/or home you bought in HPP is for your retirement. As such, how can you, why do you and why would you desire to spend your "golden years" fighting this seemingly endless fight you so seemingly and endlessly desire to fight?

5. If you could wave a magic wand, what would you do that would make you AND everyone else that lives in HPP happy as my dog Barney when I give him his favorite treat for the following topics:
A. Roads
B. Mail delivery (consistent with all applicable USPS standards)
C. HPPOA (or whatever name they were/are/should be) structure, functions and recourse against noncompliance.

I ask that your answers be answers, not convoluted and retorted questions back at me to answer. Please just answer the questions as I have asked them with sentences ending in periods.

Thanking you in advance, 

Julie

---

As I said, ask questions. 

Ok, I have one. Why should anyone believe a word you post?

Ok, I have one. Why should anyone believe a word you post?

HiloJulie, you appear to take everything I say, for some reason, as a personal affront. Should prospective buyers, or current owners who are looking at or have property in substandard subdivisions in Puna, Hawaii, not have the information I posted? 

And you "assume" wrongly. But then that is the problem with assumptions. (I assumed that I would be paying road maintenance fees for roads, which is what my deed pretty much states- and we all see where that has me.)

In answer to your numerous questions, 

I feel most people are happy with what they pay for- in this case, specifically, roads. If Owners are told they are paying road fees, agree to pay road fees ONLY, then that is all they should be required to pay- period.

As for mailboxes or anything else that is not roads? Those are separate issues, and would best be handled by our higher-ups (county and state reps, who right now are able to skate).

Lastly, any voluntary community association or road maintenance association should have some kind of oversight. Currently, there is nothing the state legislature has done to address this issue. Though,  they did have a bill they were working on, regarding planned communities, HOAs, and an "Oversight Task Force." Unfortunately, the state legislature is ALWAYS confusing road maintenance and voluntary community associations with planned communities and HOAs. So, until the state legislature understands the difference and stops pushing through well intentioned but bad law, the only recourse owners have against non-compliance is to sue. 

Hope this isn't too "convoluted" for you.

[HiloJulie]

HiloJulie, you appear to take everything I say, for some reason, as a personal affront. Should prospective buyers, or current owners who are looking at or have property in substandard subdivisions in Puna, Hawaii, not have the information I posted?

And you "assume" wrongly. But then that is the problem with assumptions.

Hope this isn't too "convoluted" for you.

A while back, I said I was no longer going to reply to you, but I broke my own rule and went ahead and tried to have a dialog and discussion with you.

So, in that light, yes, I “assum(ed) wrongly.

Nothing I have ever said past or present has or is a personal affront to you.

I do understand why you feel that way, since your only motivation is to argue, and I challenge that argument, which you think is a personal affront.

I also noticed on another thread you posted a while back, but you were questioning the building of 2 or more ADU’s on certain lots.

So, to me, it seems you are more or less a “control freak” who desires only to regulate what everyone else can do, but you yourself, refuse to be regulated.

Since you did not answer any one of the questions I have asked, continued discussion with you is pointless.

Have fun fighting your fight! Only a truly convoluted person would enjoy doing what your seemingly love doing!

No need to reply!

ETA: Anyone buying a home or property (which in today's dollars is 300k, 400k, 500k and you DO NOT KNOW what you're getting yourself into, understanding each caveat, each term, each contractual point by point by your own investigation and due diligence, then you deserve what you get (or got).

ETA2: Any verbal agreement is WORTH the piece of paper it SHOULD have been written on.