Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) raids in Hawaii

[HiloJulie]

My, after a very relaxing, refreshing and rejuvenating all expense paid 2 month PunaWeb vacation (the added touch of a Magnum of 2003 Dom Perignon and Guittard Belmont 35% Milk Couverture Chocolate Block were oh so sweet!) wherein my husband, myself and of course Barney, enjoyed a very nice government tour of Pyongyang, Kaesong and Chongjin, oh wait, silly me, I mean Toronto, Calgary and Montreal (I always mix those cities up as the Country is run like North Korea) and I missed a protest where people were being paid $40.00 per hour for 3 hours to stand and protest (I wonder if they would pay $80.00 per hour to Barney if I bring him to the next protest since he has 4 legs) to see PunaWeb being laden down with such pervasive and unrelenting gaslighting, I thought maybe one of our gas lines broke open! 

At any event, I did notice the PunaWeb's Greatest Hits thread but don't worry PunaWebbers - you're living the Greatest of Punaweb RIGHT NOW!

Let the gaslighting continue and may the rest of you PunaWebbers continue to be gaslit by the new PunaWeb professional gaslighter!

[Punatang]

Does it help you sleep at night if can convince yourself that everyone is evil?

You do realize that's absurd right? If you truly "said plenty" then you must have had evidence.

I don't think you're evil. Do you think I'm evil? I don't think anyone here on PW is evil. I'm actually as fond of you as one can be of an anonymous person on a chat forum. If you snipe at me though I might respond sometimes.  

How many of our neighbors do you think we deported from Hawaii between 2009-2016?

PS: Welcome back Jules and thanks for the memories. LOL. Hope you enjoyed the vacay.

[TomK]

My, after a very relaxing, refreshing and rejuvenating all expense paid 2 month PunaWeb vacation (the added touch of a Magnum of 2003 Dom Perignon and Guittard Belmont 35% Milk Couverture Chocolate Block were oh so sweet!) wherein my husband, myself and of course Barney, enjoyed a very nice government tour of Pyongyang, Kaesong and Chongjin, oh wait, silly me, I mean Toronto, Calgary and Montreal (I always mix those cities up as the Country is run like North Korea) and I missed a protest where people were being paid $40.00 per hour for 3 hours to stand and protest (I wonder if they would pay $80.00 per hour to Barney if I bring him to the next protest since he has 4 legs) to see PunaWeb being laden down with such pervasive and unrelenting gaslighting, I thought maybe one of our gas lines broke open! 

That has to be the longest sentence I have ever read. I'm also not convinced PunaWeb paid any expenses. But welcome back, and don't be surprised if you get asked awkward questions about your claims. I'm still interested to learn about you being a lawyer registered to practise in several states. That's very unusual.

[Durian Fiend]

...If you are decrying recent deportations then assuming the best I have to ask, very sincerely, where were you when Hawaii's own son deported 3 million humans?  

Isn't this what we call "what aboutism"?

This latest incident was yet another mistake.  Perhaps your question should be, how many ICE apprehension mistakes were made in Hawaii during that time period?

There is a large backlog of deportation cases in Hawaii currently, according to this article.  https://www.civilbeat.org/2024/12/data-d...tury-high/

Of course, if you deny someone their rights and deport without due process that could speed up the process!

[Punatang]

 if you deny someone their rights and deport without due process


You might be right.  Please forgive my ignorance on this. Can you please enumerate or provide links to exactly what process is due to individuals who break the law and enter or remain in Hawaii illegally?

ETA: It might be what you "call whataboutism". We call it curiosity. Assuming the best and asking questions. Since you thought I should ask. In FY 2009 alone ICE made 297,898 arrests yet no one on Punaweb made a peep that I can find except for comments about poor Graham and a few who wanted Sativa deported.  If you need to label my genuine curiosity because it comes from a perspective that you disagree with, there is probably also a label for your labeling. Where was the outrage on Punaweb in 2009?  Did it get deleted?

[HiloJulie]

"Isn't this what we call "what aboutism"?"

Yes, its called that. And when used as in the context the poster used it, its also called "gaslighting."

While one can argue that deporting illegal immigrants is right and proper, what is missing in todays climate is the right of Due Process.

Further confounding the issue today, is the holder of the highest office in America (some say even the world) is seemingly confused on his role and the requirement to uphold the Constitution.

And now, the discussion of the suspension of habeas corpus is put on the table. If (or when) that happens, as Lee Kovarsky, law professor at the University of Texas and expert on habeas corpus, said it would be a “national historical disaster.”

“The executive could just detain you, and there would be no recourse,” he said. “Obviously they would do it to try to detain certain non citizens, but there’s no reason why it’s limited to them.”

As for the teachers who are here in Hawaii from the Philippines on the J-1 Visa Program, I am more concerned what will happen to them if the Orange "Sybil" in the Oval wakes up one morning and decides to abolish the whole Visa Exchange program. It's already being tried and done with other sections of the Visa Exchange programs.

If that happens, will we see ICE breaking down the doors of schools while in session and rounding up the "illegal" teachers during math class in front of the students?

"You might be right.  Please forgive my ignorance on this. Can you please enumerate or provide links to exactly what process is due to individuals who break the law and enter Hawaii illegally?"

You need Due Process to legally determine they are here illegally in the first place. And yes, not knowing this is called "ignorance of the law."

[Punatang]

Thanks for those 5 national news article links in your post Jules but they do not answer my question.

Can you please, as a lawyer in multiple states, enumerate the exact process that is due to an individual who has entered or overstayed in Hawaii illegally?  I apologize again for my ignorance and I am grateful, in advance, for your good council.

[Durian Fiend]

 if you deny someone their rights and deport without due process


You might be right.  Please forgive my ignorance on this. Can you please enumerate or provide links to exactly what process is due to individuals who break the law and enter or remain in Hawaii illegally?

ETA: It might be what you "call whataboutism". We call it curiosity. Assuming the best and asking questions. Since you thought I should ask. In FY 2009 alone ICE made 297,898 arrests yet no one on Punaweb made a peep that I can find except for comments about poor Graham and a few who wanted Sativa deported.  If you need to label my genuine curiosity because it comes from a perspective that you disagree with, there is probably also a label for your labeling. Where was the outrage on Punaweb in 2009?  Did it get deleted? 

In your partisan zeal to normalize recent deportation activity, you're overlooking what some people are worried about here. 

Your "curiosity" was in response to a post raising the question of "collateral damage" from deportations.  The number of deportations at the national level in any given year is irrelevant to the question.  

As I see it, the concerns are:  1. Screw ups like the recent one with the Filipino teachers,  Indiscriminate targeting of immigrants, rather than seeking those with a known criminal record, deportation without due process and incarcerating without due process. 

Only the first of those would have been a legitimate concern back in 2009.

[Punatang]

 if you deny someone their rights and deport without due process


You might be right.  Please forgive my ignorance on this. Can you please enumerate or provide links to exactly what process is due to individuals who break the law and enter or remain in Hawaii illegally?

ETA: It might be what you "call whataboutism". We call it curiosity. Assuming the best and asking questions. Since you thought I should ask. In FY 2009 alone ICE made 297,898 arrests yet no one on Punaweb made a peep that I can find except for comments about poor Graham and a few who wanted Sativa deported.  If you need to label my genuine curiosity because it comes from a perspective that you disagree with, there is probably also a label for your labeling. Where was the outrage on Punaweb in 2009?  Did it get deleted? 

In your partisan zeal to normalize recent deportation activity, you're overlooking what some people are worried about here. 

Your "curiosity" was in response to a post raising the question of "collateral damage" from deportations.  The number of deportations at the national level in any given year is irrelevant to the question.  

As I see it, the concerns are:  1. Screw ups like the recent one with the Filipino teachers,  Indiscriminate targeting of immigrants, rather than seeking those with a known criminal record, deportation without due process and incarcerating without due process. 

Only the first of those would have been a legitimate concern back in 2009.

So you don't know what process is due?

[HiloJulie]

"Can you please, as a lawyer in multiple states, enumerate the exact process that is due to an individual who has entered or overstayed in Hawaii illegally?  I apologize again for my ignorance and I am grateful, in advance, for your good council."

I am more than happy to do so:

I'll start with this from Constitution Annotated as well as point out specifically a SCOTUS Ruling known as Mathews v. Eldridge along with The United States v. Mendoza-Lopez which ruled that "Under provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act, aliens apprehended within the interior of the United States are generally subject to formal removal proceedings, and have a number of procedural protections in those proceedings, including the right to seek counsel at no expense to the government, the right to present evidence at a hearing, the ability to apply for any available relief from removal, the right to administratively appeal an adverse decision, and (to the extent permitted by statute) the right to petition for judicial review of a final order of removal."

I hope this clears up your seeming ignorance of the law as well as the rights illegal aliens have.