Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea

[PaulW]

The same sorts of rules and resources that put the existing telescopes there. I haven't noticed them causing environmental armageddon.

(By the way, why do write plurals as "'s"? Why would anyone do that? Language tends towards simplification normally.)

[Guest]

HOTPE, The contested case hearing was skipped illegally. We have yet to hear, read, or see some or all of these community concerns to the many possible changes or impacts that may come with the TMT project. Hawaiian's, Traditions, culture, spirit, access, scenery, and history may all see or feel some level of impact or change due to the TMT project. jmo

Kalakoa, you suppose any of Wally Ishibashi'S union equipment has ever been used in ROD infected area's? Scientists are not sure if this ROD has the potential to spread to other crops or trees yet, would you like to test the ROD or other possible invasive's on the silversword or rare lichen atop Mauna kea? The added amount of dust impacts alone that were going to be created by the TMT project or its operations, was already being questioned for many environmental reasons that had yet to be sufficiently studied or known. jmo

[kalakoa]

Scientists are not sure if this ROD has the potential to spread to other crops or trees yet

BE REALISTIC. So long as people or animals can freely travel around the island, all diseases will spread, cross-contaminate, mutate. THIS IS WHAT NATURE DOES.

Some estimates put the world population at approximately five times the carrying capacity of the planetary ecosystem. Human activity is merely accelerating the natural processes which have existed for millenia. It does NOT matter whether "turning back the clock" might "undo the damage" for the simple reason that NOBODY IS WILLING TO DO IT.

Finding other planets to colonize (and perhaps ruin their ecosystems with ROD and cesspools) is our species' best bet -- and if all we can manage is endless arguments about what might or might not happen as a result of our technologies' damaging the ecosystem, WE DESERVE TO GO EXTINCT.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

many possible changes or impacts that may come with the TMT project. Hawaiian's, Traditions, culture, spirit, access, scenery, and history

Would you say the Christian missionaries changed or impacted Hawaiian tradition, culture, spirit, history, etc?
More than the TMT ever could?
Then why do the Protectors not protest any or every church on the island? The missionary ancestors of those churches as well as their present day representatives have done more to desecrate Hawaiian tradition, culture, spirit, and history, than a million telescopes ever could. Mauna Kea could look like the Manhattan skyline and it wouldn't have as detrimental an affect on the Hawaiian people as the missionaries did. Isn't this protest against the TMT really a magicians act, using misdirection to take everyone's eyes off the real problems, past and present (DHHL, OHA)?

“What we take to be true is what we believe. What we believe is based upon our perceptions. What we perceive depends on what we look for. What we look for depends on what we think. What we think depends on what we perceive. What we perceive determines what we believe. What we believe determines what we take to be true. What we take to be true is our reality." -David Bohm

[Guest]

A priority to protect Mauna kea should include minimizing impacts being made to the environment, not encouraging more adverse impacts to happen.

In a prior EIS report regarding the summit of Mauna Kea, it states the TMT will not and could not further harm the summit environment, They state the TMT would Mitigate or have no adverse impact. It states that the damage done by current and past telescopes have already caused enough irreversible environmental damage that their project could no longer cause further damage.

I find this yet another similarity to the way the EIS report was written or read for the development of Geothermal in lower Puna. This helps move these large profit-driven projects through some of the biggest environmental and community hurdles without having to be held accountable to any of it in the future. See the Aquifer's or underground water in lower Puna could not be contaminated by Geothermal drilling or the chemicals used during Geothermal operations. The water here in Puna was stated to be contaminated to the point that this Geothermal development could move forward with no concerns or responsibility for futher contamination. jmo's.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

The water here in Puna was stated to be contaminated

The well water in HPP is contaminated in places from all the cesspools in the park. Fisherman crap in a depression across the street from my house, to a point where if it doesn't rain for a few days the stench drifts into the surrounding neighborhood, especially at night.

When you're done with the TMT, could you take on those impacts to the environment? Maybe protest fishing, and put rocks in the driveways of some of the homes in the area to keep their (illegal?) bathrooms from being used?

Thanks, in advance.

“What we take to be true is what we believe. What we believe is based upon our perceptions. What we perceive depends on what we look for. What we look for depends on what we think. What we think depends on what we perceive. What we perceive determines what we believe. What we believe determines what we take to be true. What we take to be true is our reality." -David Bohm

[leilanidude]

The water here in Puna was stated to be contaminated to the point that this Geothermal development could move forward with no concerns or responsibility for futher contamination.
---
gypsy69 - Does your home have a cesspool?

[kalakoa]

desecrate Hawaiian tradition, culture, spirit, and history

Imagine your lands are taken from you, after which some are set aside for your use -- all you have to do is spend a lifetime on the waiting list, then have enough money for a fully permitted home built by licensed contractors and inspected by County employees.

How is this not "desecration"? Where are the Protectors?

gypsy69 -- Do you use electricity? Drive a car? Shop at the supermarket? ALL of these activities "encourage more adverse impacts to happen".

[kalakoa]

The well water in HPP is contaminated in places from all the cesspools in the park.

The sewer system on Oahu overflows every time they get heavy rain, but you don't see anyone seeking to shut down Waikiki -- they just post a "brown water advisory" (nothing to see here, move along, don't forget to pay on your way out).

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/32515...ll-islands

[TomK]

Eric,

"TMT is also going to trade time with other telescope contributors to give UH students 7.5% viewing time on the TMT itself, which is unprecedented."

The current observatories already donate 15% of their observing time to UH, it's how they pay their rent and results in several million dollars of time for UH faculty and students. The TMT's contribution is actually half of the current observatories, but they will also be paying a monetary rent.

Anyway, it would be nice to get back to discoveries made on MK rather than another thread debating the TMT.