Punawebbers' Political Compass

[Kelena]

Yeah, I kinda think we are a little tired of politics on Punaweb. Less politics and more hydroponics talk would suit me fine.

[Jon]

[]
Is that not why there is a gardening forum?

So again its going to come down to, I don't like what you have to say, so you can't say it here?

or is it that we have to make sure your feeling up to it before we post things that we are not tired of?

Can you at least post up if you are feeling weak or not everyday? []



like alaskasteven posted...
I would also suggest Rob move this tread to the political forum and let it go, then those that don't want to read anything about politics and not read the political forum at all.



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I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.

[AlohaSteven]

Stillhope commented-

Politics?

Something real for those on the top and around them.

For simple folks- something to talk about when they have nothing else to discuss.

Thanks for sharing the comment, and I mean that sincerely, not facetiously. This is an interesting perception, doubtless a perception by no means unique to only Stillhope (in my experience if one person is brave enough to give voice to a thought then there are usually a whole bunch of others thinking the same who for whatever reasons are not speaking up), and is a perception with important implications.

Politics is the process by which groups of people make decisions. The term is generally applied to behavior within civil governments, but politics has been observed in all human group interactions, including corporate, academic, and religious institutions. It consists of "social relations involving authority or power" and refers to the regulation of a political unit, and to the methods and tactics used to formulate and apply policy.
[Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics
-and a big thanks to all those who donated to Wikipedia this year; the operating budget for this fiscal year has been met and the 23 staff operating Wikipedia as a resource accessible to everyone will continue to be able to serve us.]

Given the articulation above as a point of departure in understanding the nature and significance of politics (versus Truth with a capital "T"), it is a significant and troubling perception that politics is only something real for those on the top but for simple folks only something to talk about when they have nothing else to discuss. A concern, I assert, because this perception may account in large part for a lack of voter participation and turnout.

A disempowered view of the role of simple folk (and I do number myself among the simple folk) plays directly into the hands of those who are not simple folk. Those who are not simple folk acquire and wield power & influence disproportionate to their numbers and contribution in our society only as we, the people, cede our own power to them. (Where the boundary line between simple folk and "Them" others is properly and accurately drawn is a fertile discussion in and of itself).

Corporations, elite vested interests represented by lobbyists and law firms, the military, and so on all depend upon preferential and discounted --or even outright free-- access to public resources (from bandwidth to land usage), special protections & privileges for themselves, and control over the public in order to continue to maintain a status quo which serves themselves much more so than the long term good of the simple folk, the public. This egregious manipulation is achieved and maintained in large part by the buying of venal politicians, a strategy which is only successful when the simple folk lack faith in their own collective power and allow such to happen.

Certainly it is true we simple folk may often be too tired from work and lack the time or energy to engage in discussion of social relations involving authority or power (whether regarding local crime issues, roads/medical capacity/postal service, prevention of invasive species, promotion of sustainable agriculture, and so on). But I question that politics is only something to talk about when simple folk have nothing else to discuss. If we do not discuss politics then we are mere putty in the hands of those who are most decidedly not simple folk, and so will be manipulated and shaped by them to their designs, serve their ends, and ultimately be disposed of as they see fit rather than as we would have it.

I am all for discussing hydroponics and suchlike yet the reality is that politics will make or break hydroponics in Puna, on the Big Island, and in the state of Hawaii ...just like any and every other topic of significance to we simple folk. We ignore and neglect politics to our own peril and detriment as well as that of our children and the environment, based on results to date. For this reason more than any other I think any opportunity --from the Political Compass instrument to a Friends of Puna's Future meeting-- is a good opportunity for discussion amongst ourselves. Discussion hopefully constituting or at least leading to self-education on issues: understanding historical context, insight regarding legal, financial dimensions, and technical/scientific dimensions of issues, and sharing our personal &/or cultural group perspectives.

By the way, regarding the angst we all feel about limited options for responses in the Political Compass instrument, yes, such instruments are not precise. They oversimplify and collapse distinctions. Given that, once enough responses are collected and the instrument is fine-tuned accordingly, they are also more accurate than not for measuring the very limited axes they are designed toward -better than nothing, in other words, at least as a point of departure or framework via which to begin communicating and understanding our fellow simple folk. Our neighbors in the community can be as different from us as night is from day, yet we are all in this together.



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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

Pres. John Adams, Scholar and Statesman


"There's a scientific reason to be concerned and there's a scientific reason to push for action. But there's no scientific reason to despair."

NASA climate analyst Gavin Schmidt

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[StillHope]

Alaskasteven,thank you for caring.

I was not going to participate anymore in this thread,but out of respect for your very informative, very scientific ,very civil (and very long[] ) posts,I am going to add one more comment.

I can not help seeing a bigger picture I discovered a long time ago,being among the group of international students.
It was a casual conversation about the life (and living expenses )of "simple folks" in different countries,nothing major.

Later on the computer in my head put all pieces together,sort them out and gave the "big picture" (which I checked later on many other examples):

In any country with any political system (even socialism vs capitalism)

a "simple folk" person pays about the same % of the

salary/wages for the basis living expenses.

Though there are some variations,the outcome is always about the same :

After all (very basic!) needs are paid for there's very little (or nothing) left.

After all what a working horse needs?

Note: I do understand the importance of education and a power of a person to do something about his life.

But if everyone becomes a doctor an a lawyer...(you finish the picture).

In my city there are so many ROOMMATES.

And so many of them work hard 5-6 days a week.

It's either roommate or you don't have a life,or you live in getto.

Which political party is going to change that?.

(Don't answer [])

Disclaimer : There is no officially proven facts ,no published material, just a personal observation .

And as I mentioned earlier,I have no intention to discuss this - there is no end to this discussion.

[JWFITZ]

I found it pretty interesting having taken the test--being a bit flattered to have my ideals firmly planted on top of Nelson Mandela's--someone who I have always admired--to immediately grasp the problem with the test.

Certainly while the authoritarian/liberalism/socialism/libertarianism matrix matters to some degree, I think it's pretty important to add another value and make the matrix a 3 dimensional one. I'd add a Z axis labeled -- activism vs complacency. This would add a great deal of clarity to the comparisons that is wholly lacking otherwise.