Bringing unpermitted up to code

[VancouverIslander]

I'm looking for general advice on doing this. What the processes are, where to start. We are just at the point of getting a contract drawn up on a place we've got a verbal agreement on purchasing and I figured now's as good a time as any to start finding out as much as possible about it. The building is a 400 sq ft studio with an approx. 170 sq ft bathroom addition started. Looking at the framing in the addition, the floor joists and rafters, it appears to be well built. It needs simpson ties added at least on the addition (it's got rods through the sill plate, but no ties every 4 ft. up to the roof, which I understand is the new code). We'll probably have to tear the gyp-rock off to inspect the framing on the main part of the building (amend if needed) and to allow both plumber and electrician access to ensure everything's up to code and/or amend it.

From what I've read in threads here and other forums, the first step is find someone to draw up plans and get them submitted. We are thinking we'd get a general contractor since we're 2300 miles away most of the time, but we're not 100% certain on that since I'll be available for July/August to get started on things and my wife will have some ability to book time for the Fall/Spring.

[Kapohocat]

I will respond for two reasons, I do the paperwork side for a living, and right now for myself for our home.

First, get the plans drawn up before you tear anything apart. This would also be the point if you want to add anything or change any SF that it would be the time to add that into the plans. Have the electrician and plumber come and see what they think too as you will need their permit applications to go with the "as-built" permit application. They will be able to tell you what they need as the electric code changed 2 (?) yrs ago. Then, and only then start to tear out anything on the advice of your electrician primarily, but also the plumber.

You can add in the ties required. I just got one passed that we got plans draw for the addition and all we had to add was safety rails and a smoke alarm.

So I would if can wait for the inspection, and see what they want you to add, or open. You may have to add nothing or completely rip it apart - be prepared for the rest and hope for the best. (Caveat - unless you were going to tear the sheet rock out anyway to change something to your taste).

One inspector told me it is not their goal to make people rip their house apart. It is just so it is safe. Somewhere between there is the reality of what happens.

Good luck!

[john the architect]

Once you have plans drawn up when you are bringing something up to code after the fact, my understanding is that you need to have it signed off by a licensed architect . It may be that you still get in under the 600sf rule and do not need this, but if you do, it's something I do. To save time and money down the road, if you are thinking of needing more space than that, consider permitting (and designing) the extra space at this time.

John Maloney
310.562.0362
johnmaloney3@me.com
Hawaii Architect AR8082
www.jmagreenbuilding.com

[hotinhawaii]

I would suggest first, to get a contractor to look at the structure and see if it will even meet code. I have inspected as-built structures that would never comply with code unless they were completely rebuilt.

[jerry]

The electrical side of an as built changed with the new electrical code. I have not done one under the new code so it is hard to say what will be required. I think you will need a drawing of the electrical system, signed and stamped by an electrical engineer. You will also need to open up some of the walls so the wiring can be inspected. Then you will probably have to install the necessary gfi receptacles and arc fault circuit breakers, make sure the kitchen and bathroom circuits are dedicated, and do whatever else to bring it up to code. If it is older style romex or even older mineral cable you may need to replace all of it.

For a small job like yours it would probably be doable. I don't know about a larger project, however.

Again, I don't know what the inspectors will want now, but it will probably be a can of worms.

Jerry
Art and Orchids B&B
http://www.artandorchids.com

[ericlp]

If you looking to bring something up to code... It's not easy to do. I'd say if you wanted something permitted ... Buy it permitted, other wise... Depending on how many acres you have. Go get a building permit on the property live in your unpermitted home while you build your permitted home. After that, you could use the home for a storage shed or extra room for a guest home. This is just an open ended question since... It's hard to say just how bad/good it is with out first looking at it... At any rate your going to be in for an uphill battle.

I'd think that you'd be better off spending the cash applying for a permit to build something new rather than jumping though all the hoops spending the cash to get an unpermitted unit permitted.

Just my two cents worth! Good Luck!

[VancouverIslander]

Thanks for all of your input so far. The house was constructed in the last 4 years, so the wiring is pretty new. I'm pretty sure we'll be tearing out the gyp-rock, but will wait until after at least an electrician and plumber (and probably a GC) have had a look. If we'd had more time, we'd have hired someone to look at it already. We're only into this thing for 30k and the framing looks pretty good at least to me. I guess if it is too big an expense to bring up to code we can always just try a composting toilet and try to fly under the radar (this is definitely not my preferred way to go, I'm a bit OCD about following rules). It's on one acre. I don't think the storage shed/extra room thing will fly with inspectors either, though. I'm pretty sure ag structures need a commercial permit and ohanas also need to be permitted. With any luck, we won't have much more trouble than Kapohocat in getting it permitted. It's good to know there are folks on the forum that can use the work, we'll be looking you up for quotes when the time comes =)

So if I understand Kapohocat's suggestions:

a) get plans drawn up and submit for building permit. Get architect to look it over if required.
b) get electrician and plumber on site to tell us what needs to be done from their end and submit applications with them.
c) once plans approved get any work done that's needed.
d) get inspectors out. See what they require to be amended and fix it. Rinse and repeat until approved.

I might add one more step - hire either a house inspector or GC to analyze what likely needs to be done in addition to elec/plumbing.

[macuu222]

There is always the other side of the coin. And here is my two cents... You can just leave it as is and improve on it as an owner/builder "unpermitted". Alot of people on this island do it that way. And it's one heck of alot faster seeing how slow the building department is here in getting a permit. You may have a problem selling it down the road if thats your concern....but people like myself don't worry about tomorrow....just today. Heck we're sitting on an active volcano.... our whole subdivision could be covered in lava tomorrow!

[Kapohocat]

quote:

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Originally posted by VancouverIslander...Rinse and repeat until approved...

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Pretty much.

Thats why we are using Jerry (a licensed electrical contractor) as our guidepost for our as-built.

The structure of ours is servicable but not to DH's exacting standards so we live with it as we can and rip out what we cant.

We tore down 16 x 32 (over the setback, and about 4" over property line) because we could have fixed the 4" corner but the thing was a POS and no reason to fight it out with a setback variance when DH would have pretty much rebuilt it anyway. (The nest we lived in for almost 14 months.)

Licensed architect who knows as-built issues, lice licensed elec and plumber who know as-built issues will become your best friends.

Honestly at times, it is the time spent on paperwork and getting the right i dotted and t crossed and you just have to work though the process. Some people are tenacious and some aren't. Definately do not do it if you are not. Figure out what your no-go line is at financially, and then figure out if you can make it work. When we are done with ours, we will have made a little even in this market and maybe in the long term future done well (i hope!)

But we know what we are doing, we have a good draftsperson and architect, a damn fine anal retentive builder that I love dearly []!, and good electric and plumbing contractors steering us!