quote:
Originally posted by Easygoing
It is not the same as when the American Indians were rounded up and put in reservations, nobody is making the locals move, they just want to have a better job, to buy more cosumer goods.
[xx(]
*cough*
And you know this? I don't know of any locals that want to move so they can buy more consumer goods.
Most of the Hawaiians and locals I know... could care less about consumer goods.
The cost of living has just gotten too high here for many locals.
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A man sets fire to his sport utility vehicle after driving it into the ticket lobby of Kahului Airport, Maui, Hawai'i, 2004
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"Pushed off their lands" assumes a lot of conjecture, in my view.
Many of the immigrants to The New World weren't "pushed", but left to find a better economic future where they could raise families; a similarity to many of those born and raised here.
I wasn't "pushed" out of California when I moved to Alaska back in 1983, but did so so that I could have the financial wherewithal for my eventual move here. It was a choice.
I think many leave here out of choice.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill
"Pushed off their lands" assumes a lot of conjecture, in my view.
Many of the immigrants to The New World weren't "pushed", but left to find a better economic future where they could raise families; a similarity to many of those born and raised here.
I wasn't "pushed" out of California when I moved to Alaska back in 1983, but did so so that I could have the financial wherewithal for my eventual move here. It was a choice.
I think many leave here out of choice.
And I think many leave here because of NO CHOICE. If they could live here and make ends meet, they wouldn't have to leave.
Were all welcome to opinions on this.
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A man sets fire to his sport utility vehicle after driving it into the ticket lobby of Kahului Airport, Maui, Hawai'i, 2004
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The majority of native Hawaiians I've come to know on the mainland say they left because of limited opportunities. But they don't blame anyone except the island itself for being so removed from the mainland. One left because there just isn't a call for pharmaceutical chemist on Hawaii. Another because his financial skills were based on mergers and acquisitions, which Hawaii had a small need. Another wanted to drive long=-haul trucks. They really didn't want to do something local. To be quite frank, they all gave me the distinct impression they were tired of their Hawaiian heritage being seen as a negative because they moved around like other American citizens. To them the worst type of discrimination they face is that people think they should not enjoy the same freedom of movement (as if they owed the state their life) and moving from Hawaii was disrespectful to their heritage.
The Native American situation is radically different even though there are similarities. Now, would you consider it a negative if a Native American left the reservation to attend law school in NYC, and ultimately become a respected person who defends the rights of ALL citizens, but hasn't return to live on the reservation, but is a member of his tribes Council?
People need to STOP trying to help the indigenous populations with their americanized “I understand and stand with you brother” mentality. It’s actually harmful, not helpful! You provide the crutch many races have finally thrown away to advance themselves. Don’t be the missionary who's now handing out small-pox blankets to the new in-fashion charity case.
Nough said by me on this!
Let's look at this quote from a 1993 NY TIMES article:
With land scarce, tourist development drove up the cost of living. And because hotel and restaurant jobs pay poorly, average incomes dropped. Hawaii today finds itself in the odd position of ranking first in housing costs nationally ($335,000 is the median price of a house in the state) but 24th in average income. Rents and food costs are also among the highest of the states. That means thousands of Hawaiians work two or even three jobs to survive, and an exodus to the mainland has begun.
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A man sets fire to his sport utility vehicle after driving it into the ticket lobby of Kahului Airport, Maui, Hawai'i, 2004
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I'm sure many locals do leave for economic reasons. As do many locals from other areas in the country with limited opportunities. Sure, Hawaii does have more extreme issues of this type than many areas, but possibly not all. Appalachia has been like that for years. Not due to expensive housing, just no opportunity. When I lived in Hawaii in the early 70s, it seemed that most all of the local kids wanted to leave Hawaii at the first opportunity. Land and housing was fairly cheap then. They just wanted to go somewhere new.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
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Maybe someone can clarify a question that occurs to me. There have been many posts referencing development and mainlanders moving to BI as a contributing pricing locals out of the housing market. However, wouldn't the actual cost of building be the same? The only difference would be cost of the land. Just for argument, let's say a Puna house costs $200,000 for materials, labor, permits, etc. If ten years ago a lot cost $10,000, and now it costs $50,000, that's only a difference in price of $210,000 vs $250,000 - maybe ~$200 a month more mortgage. Yes, even $200 can be a stretch for families on the edge, but I suspect most could manage it. Plus, even at the $210,000 figure, where in the US could they move to to get a house at that price? Not the west coast, and maybe not many places anyone wants to move to or that has jobs.
So, how to have jobs in Hawaii to pay for a decent lifestyle? They can't all be service jobs, and agriculture is never going to be the job source it was in US past. It's got to be something else. Are retirees the only growth industry in Hawaii right now? Add in that the cost of living is never going down since so much that people want to have has to be shipped in. Does Hawaii have any serious plans for job creation or is it all hand-wringing? One possibility might be combinations of high-tech and data-processing. If the US can farm out tens of thousands of software support, etc jobs to India, why couldn't some of those have come to Hawaii?
quote:
However, wouldn't the actual cost of building be the same? The only difference would be cost of the land.
well, you're making the assumption that these families would or could build their own house.
To build a house of that entry price requires cash in the bank. Construction loans aren't so easy to get. My last broker, who helps people achieve home ownership in Hilo, says very few local clients have the kind of good credit to get loans like that. Realistically, I'd guess the typical renter who wants to own a home hopes to do it on 0-5% down, on an existing home.
quote:
Originally posted by olin137
...If the US can farm out tens of thousands of software support, etc jobs to India, why couldn't some of those have come to Hawaii?
Who here in Hawaii would work for the wages that they pay in India?[  ]
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Today in History:
Daisy, the Honolulu Zoo's African elephant tramples her keeper to death seemingly becoming tempermental after 17 years in Hawai'i, 1933. She is immediately killed by police officers and her body then towed out to sea and left behind for sharks.
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