As I sit here with helicopters buzzing overhead...

[Bob Orts]

Just as an FYI, HATCPM only applies to air tours. It has no bearing on other aviation activity. Blue Hawaii and all the others can fly and hover over your house without violating HATCPM if they are engaged in any other activity permitted so long as it’s not an air tour.

Second thing, the FAA conducted a demonstration when the study program for restriction over Honolulu area was enacted and most people misjudged the height. During that demonstration, the majority of flights conducted between 500' to 900' were misidentified by average people on the ground as being under 500'. Over 1,000 feet was about even. It's not unusual for a helicopter above 500' to be thought as being much lower in altitude.

[YurtGirl]

1500 feet, not 500, is the minimum for air tours as far as I can tell, according to the documents linked above, and through discussions w/ the tour companies and airport personnel. Most people can tell the difference between 1500 and 500 I would think, but just the same, this bit of info that Terry posted was pretty cool I thought.

"A good way to quickly gauge altitude is to use your thumbnail (!) and your fist.
Your thumbnail at arms length is 2 degrees. Your fist at arms length is 10 degrees.
If your thumbnail is the same size as the helicopter, the helicopter is 800 feet away. If the helicopter is
800 feet away, and two "fist widths" above the horizon, it's 250 feet above you."

Again, I'm not aiming this argument toward copters that are other than tour companies at this time. I feel that's way too big of a battle to take on all at once. Far better to divide these things into chewable sizes. I also believe that those other fly-over activities probably don't account for more than 10% of the fly overs we get here. But I believe you Bob, that many think the flights are under the limit. I also believe that many of them are actually under the limit, especially in very rural, non vocal areas like Fern Forest. Pilots are used to getting away with it out here.

[DanielP]

And how many degrees would my middle finger be?

[csgray]

Whenever people use the economic argument of Hawaii Island being dependent on tourism to defend the tour helicopters I think about our time living in Orchidland. The apartment over ours and two other units on the land were vacation rentals that were attractive to people who wanted nature, birdsong, peace and quiet. During our time there we heard complaints from ALL the tourists about the loud helicopters. One couple left early because the husband worked in a building in Manhattan with a helicopter landing pad on the roof that was used by a TV station. He said listening to the helicopters all day made him feel like he was still at work.

My point is that the tourists who do come and stay in Puna are looking for a peaceful, rural, back to nature kind of vacation, so for every helicopter tour client who has the experience of a lifetime there is another one who has their ideal vacation ruined. Why should one part of the tourism industry (helicopter tours) be able to do business in such a way that another segment of the industry (rural B&Bs and vacation rentals) cannot give their clients the experience they paid for? These tours are attractive enough that the tour companies could fly in a far more conscious manner and still fill their seats, they might make a little less profit, but they would still get plenty of clients.

I actually really like the dirigible idea, they are quiet and move slowly, so it would be a much better picture taking opportunity for the average vacationer.

Carol