ethanol from sugar cane

[David D]

Any new large refining/manufacturing facility in the state is doomed. No matter how eco-freindly.
C.A.V.E. Rules!!!

[Nate SC]

I agree that ethanol would not work for Hawaii but Vegetable oil as a replacement fuel in straight diesel engines IS ONE that would work. Even small diesel engines could run on it for off grid use to power homes.

[Rob Tucker]

Post reprinted from - 03/29/2006 :

There was a story on NPR this last week about a 15 million gallon capacity ethanol plant planned on Oahu. With Dole closing out pineapple in Hawaii there will be a couple hundred thousand acres of underused ag land. The plan is, as I heard it, to plant sorghum and cane for ethanol production. Part of the ethanol run will be as an extender for gasoline and part will be to displace oil for electric generation.

[Carey]

Nate, bio-diesel is one way, but you still are increasing the CO2 emissons (the "Inconvient Truth" is that our CO2 emissions today are higher than at any time on earth... Out stipping the CO2 level that were around during the Carboniferous period the fossil fuel reserves were first being created. CO2 emissions are what are driving the climate changes that are melting the polar ice. The NOAA weather observatory on Mauna Loa has taken CO2 levels since 1958. Every year has shown an increase in CO2 levels, rising in an exponential pattern. Every time anyone burns any carbon based fuel, are atmospheric CO2 levels rise. The traditional CO2 sinks (the ocean & plants on earth) are showing signs that indicate that they are being adversely effected by the increase in CO2.
It would be far wiser to utilize technology that does not burn carbon based fuels for energy (PV panels on all south facing HI buildings is a very pratical start to limiting our CO2 contribution to the atmosphere). The new Island Naturals Pahoa store with the SunEdison array is a great way that corporations can work together on this.
Utilizing bio diesel is a limited way to reduce petroleum dependance, but the current economics of scale would show the limitations on this (how much frier oil is used vs. the tanker trucks of gasoline per day anywhere? and what price is new veg. oil vs. petroleum? what would the price of used oil go to if demand increases? - Currently bio diesel prices are close to petroleum...that may change if demand or supply curves increase....



Edited by - carey on 03/21/2007 15:05:13

[oink]

If I understand the logic correctly, the CO2 advantage of using biodiesel and ethanol is that you are not adding new CO2 to the environment. The fuels are producing CO2 that was just recently taken out of the atmosphere by the plants used to produce the fuel. That is a good theory and should produce no net gain in CO2. Fossil fuels are releasing CO2 that was taken up long ago. The only flaw in the theory is when fossil fuels are used to produce the fertilizers used in the agriculture.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[Beachboy]

people we have to remember that renewable energy is not alternative energy.
The conservative side talks about renewable energy like it's an alternative energy... but it's not. Coal is dirty... 'clean coal' is hardly better. Ethanol is not an option for Hawaii!!!

But I am finding THIS web site very interesting:

http://www.changingworldtech.com/



Edited by - beachboy on 03/21/2007 07:20:55

[olin137]

Actually, ethanol is a perfectly good potential fuel for Hawaii - just not at the present time. The Holy Grail of ethanol is not using corn or even sugarcane (though sugarcane is far more efficient than corn), but developing the technology to convert all plant biomass into ethanol - stalks, leaves, roots, all of it. We're still a good ways away from being able to do this, so we're probably looking at 10-20 years. Once such conversion is possible, Hawaii should be in good shape since what is needed to be economically feasible is a year-round supply of plant material - something the east side of big island should be able to take care.

As far as the worry about huge industrial plants, the current thinking is that ethanol from biomass will have to be local and small-scale. The simple economics is that if the plant matter has to be transported too far, it doesn't work out; i.e., the cost and fuel for transport takes too much away from the efficiency.

Is ethanol the solution to all problems? Of course not. Conservation and efficiency are the gorillas in the closet that politicians, and most citizens, don't want to touch. Most reasonable estimates are that ethanol could make up perhaps 20-40% of the US fuel needs, assuming a reasonable commitment also to conservation and efficiency.

Olin137

[Les C]

Here's some recent news about another biodiesel fuel source, algae. http://tinyurl.com/25z6pq

I've also heard mention of a plant/tree from India, Jatrophra, that has a good potential. Granted, these are meant for diesel engines, but that's something.

Regarding oink's point about the cycling of CO2 with biodiesel fuels, this is what I've read also. It's not the same as releasing gases from fossil fuels which had been taken out of our environment a long time ago. There is an issue with how the biodiesel plants are powered. It would be great (I think) if they are powered by their own fuel, or supplemented heavily by solar and wind.

And speaking of releasing CO and CO2 from fossil fuels, when I led a birding trip in Alaska a few years ago, a researcher presented to our group about his work: monitoring greenhouse gases released from the melting permafrost. These are gases that were frozen into the ground many years ago. This dynamic of the general warming trend is believed to be adding to the acceleration of global warming.

Edited by - Les C on 06/15/2007 13:07:31