Three Sides to the Story...

[Haole Girl]

E David,

It depends on how sacred the information is or who you are dealing with. Then you have intra-island differences including but not limited to dialect. For example some may say hoomanauwanui. Some may say hoomanaunui.


Another example is in hula there is the oli kahea where the student asks permission to the teacher if they can learn. It is not assumed that the teacher will teach which I think differs in Western culture where if someone pays or what not... they somehow feel entitled to learn.

Then the oli komo which is chanted inside the halau and grants the student permission to enter the halau. However the teacher very well can and may say "You are not ready" or "No."

There is so much plus remember our history is an orally based one. One cannot possibly describe it all in one post at PunaWeb so I can see why Momi sent email versus posting it here.

Her decision also epitomizes an example of an oli kahea and an oli komo. It is not a right of the person who is asking nor is it a given that information and/or knowledge will be shared when someone asks. Instead it is a privilege.


Another possible factor is the high pilau factor but instead of trying to understand why she didn't post information for all to see what happened? It seems like some people expected her to do so since they asked. Thus an inherent problem.


Y.W.N.


Edited by - Haole Girl on 03/11/2007 18:53:54

[David M]

Momi

Unfortunately, I was writing my post as you were posting your second response on Aimee's thread. How I wish your second post, along with some of the info in your above post were the initial response to Aimee, very educational, not condescending. I would not have posted mine. I have the utmost respect for the cultures and peoples of this land. I am not offended if told my question is not appropriate, provided of course I'm told in a considerate manner. Learning that one is not entitled to know an answer is also knowledge, especially if the why is given.
I do take offense at your judgement of me, my mentality - you definaitely do not know me, nor do I detect any hint of respect for an elder person. - My sincerest apologies if you are indeed older than me, but I doubt it..
Again, thank you for the sensible, polite, and educational portion of your reply.

David

PS. Sorry to hear of your Frank B problem. He is indeed trouble, as referenced by another poster and sadly has been a thorn to many of us. He has been banned from here but is still a lurker.

Ninole Resident

[Momi]

David,

I didn't answer her question fully in the beginning because I had to leave to do a presentation for the village of Milolii and was preparing my self. As for respect for elders, I have learned throughout the years that respect is earned and not given. Same with knowledge. I didn't judge you from seeing you in person I judged you because of the manner in which you "expected" the information. It doesn't matter if you are young or old. Only I decide who and what will be learned from me. Even my own son, asks me questions about healing. He wants to know "everything" in one day. So when he hears my answer, he gets frustrated and says, "why are you telling me in a riddle that I have to figure out?" It's because he has to learn all aspects of each individual answer.
I'm not offended and I would appreciate you accepting the way I speak as the way I speak. Any one of my friends knows that I speak from the heart and not beat around the bush to make people feel good. This is the way it is.

Turns out, I went to Milolii being very nervous and self concious. I mean was I who was I to be the teacher. I was asked by a respected village woman to do this. Her thoughts were, if the people learn about the power in the healing plants, they will automatically learn to respect the power of the land and learn to respect others. Well...it was not the case when I went down there. It seems the most amazing elder stepped up to the plate and shared so much information on healing. Most of which I knew but some of which I didn't and that was very meaningful for me. I kept my mouth shut until he was finished and for the sake of the continued education for future generations in Miloli`i. He allowed us to take pictures of him, take notes, and film him so a video of this can be put into the Miloli`i library for future generations. This is very rare. Kupuna usually never allow any form of media but oral history to be the protocol in them sharing their information. This man was 80 years old. I learned so much from him and will learn more in the next sessions.
Mahalo haole girl for your much needed input on this. You know what I mean.



Edited by - momi on 03/11/2007 19:04:31

[David M]

Y.W.N

Again, my thanks for such an informative, sensible, and polite reply. Sure makes sense to me and I suspect to most members.

Are there any subjects can indeed be asked and answered? I think there is much, many of us can learn from one another and not all of a deep cultural, invasive nature. For instance, if I were to ask of the significance of Ti plants? Answerable or invasive?

It is indeed a priviledge to be able to ask, it is a priviledge to be able to learn. I am here as much to learn as I am to live - to me inseparable. I mean no offense to ask, nor take offense if answer is denied appropriately.

David

Ninole Resident

[Momi]

David,

I can't tell you everything that is appropriate to ask or not but it is probably better to let me answer questions as they arise on the web. If I feel it is appropriate to answer I will always though, at the risk of it being taken wrong.
Ti leaves are one of the most wonderful of Hawaiian plants. The early Polynesian migrators brought it with them and it's importance was high on the scale because there was limited space on the vessel which they used to travel here, not knowing if they would find land that was fertile, or if this plant was already here. It is used to ward off evil spirits, to cool a fever and is used in many traditional and current for spiritual cleansing ceremonies. I love ti leaves so much, I planted tons of different varieties on my land in Puna. I have a whole collection of them. The Hawaiians only use the green one though. The one that doesn't flower and is propagated by means of cuttings. The scientific word for ti is Cordyline terminalis. I can't itilisize the word so I didn't, but it is protocol to italicize scientific words. The Hawaiian word for ti is ki, or la`i. There are many more uses for ti then I have time to write.



Edited by - momi on 03/11/2007 19:20:54