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Thank You, StillHope. The meeting tomorrow is not even an open community meeting. It is a community support meeting. Many of the petitioners do not feel comfortable going to SPACE. Some have been specifically told that they may not attend, and will be removed if they attempt to. The meeting is not being held in a public location in order to be able to exert such control over the voices of dissent. SPACE is soliciting written statements for review, however, I for one am disinclined to hand over my thoughts on the matter to the organization with which I have a grievance. Instead, it is increasingly apparent that the only course of action is to continue working though the various agencies and legal channels available. If SPACE is truly and indispensable community resource, it should not be afraid of the community it claims to serve.
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I like playing Speed Metal at all hours and at high volumes because I think it's important my neighbors be exposed to this important expression of contemporary culture.
Is anyone saying that my violations of neighborhood noise restrictions did not occur?
No.
Have my violations injured or killed anybody?
No.
Does my noise result in a wider community benefit?
Hell yeah.
Have unpermitted activities at my house resulted in positive community benefits?
Yes. Well, at least I think so. That's all that matters, right?
The local rules should evolve to meet *my* needs. Because I've decided they benefit the community.
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"Community benefit" can be interpreted in n ways. Laws are a bit more clear cut.
As are permits which people agree to comply with before breaking them.
Kids should have things to do. Homeless people should be helped. But why not do it legally?
It is possible. It can be done. It is being done.
Once again, who are these people who think the law doesn't apply to them?
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Paul, you certainly have the right to listen to metal music. So do the 2700 potential neighbors living on 7000 sq ft lots, especially when they have no other community space available for entertainment. You may have to turn your volume up to hear over the "death metal" band rehersing in their carport twenty feet from your living room as they've cranked it up to eleven hear over your stereo. The "Jazz yodelers" twenty feet on the other side of you have invested in larger amplifiers also.
SPACE has gone to extreme lengths to make sure the volume levels don't exceed the permitted levels. I saw this first hand when I used the facility for a gathering. The SPACE employee on site used a decible meter at the property line, and made sure the volume was within limits. The problem isn't volume, but expanding the SUP to meet community needs. They are working on this.
Even with a modified SUP, SPACE will have limits on hours as well as volumes. I can't say if your 2699 neighbors will have the same level of responsibility.
Planned growth is essential to a community with the potential to be so densly populated. I'd like to help with the plan instead of allowing the "urban anarchy" of unrestricted growth. SPACE is a social laboratory for all of us and needs to be utilized, nurtured, modified, and allowed to continue it's contribution to the area.
Stoneface
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Joined: Jun 2007
quote:
Originally posted by Greg
Our POA has set aside several lots we own as "miniparks", community gardens, and dedicated greenspace. We sponsor summer and seasonal break programs in these areas for our kids(and by default, their parents).
Are we to expect government intervention or lawsuits from neighbors who may not like the noise of active children?
No. Why would you think that?
If your zoning allows for parks, playgrounds, and open space activities, everyone in that zoning knows that they can be next door to one. Just like the people of Seaview and all other AG zoned property knows that a community center like SPACE can be built right next door to them. That is allowed by zoning without the need for any Use or Special Use Permit. SPACE is not the problem, a community center is not the problem. Their activities are not the problm unless it's in violation of zoning and the SUP they agreed to live by.
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quote:
Originally posted by james weatherford
Running stop signs and driving fast result in deaths, injuries, and property damage.
I never said that the running of the stop lights caused any injury or death!
I never said that driving fast caused and injury or deaths!
I said that the excuse for the action was due to them providing a good to the community at large.
If the criteria is causing injury or deaths, I expect that if you’re elected to office, you will introduce a Bill to make it an affirmative defense against those two moving violations that if it did not cause any injury or death, it is dismissed. If you won't do that, your rationale is meaningless and just political pandering.
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Bob, Everything you say makes sense in law and in theory. What happens is that it often fails to make sense in practice.
In Law and theory most of these subdivisions are agricultural. In practice they are residential. In law and theory residential pays a lower tax rate than agricultural (for some reason) while residential (in theory) require more services. Maintaining tens of thousands of "agricultural" residences is a thinly veiled mechanism for subtle disenfranchising of tens of thousands of residents. Geographic favoritism (or discrimination if you will) combines with ethnic favoritism in the County of Hawaii and the result is inequity.
Look at populations by district and then compare the zoning allocations of commercial, recreational, industrial and residential.
Bob, I would love to have you examine the Level of Service (LOS) data at www.bonniegoodell.com and tell me what you think. What is brewing is a Federal Civil Rights Complaint. The 2010 census will play a role in this.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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Written in large letters at the top of the page Mr.Tucker linked to: "If you get equal treatment right, the rest is easy."
When SPACE treats it's neighbors as equals, not as underlings to their privileged Private Property, the rest will be easy.
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"Are we to expect government intervention or lawsuits from neighbors who may not like the noise of active children? "
(Greg)
Greg,you keep talking about children while Ericm,SPACE volunteer,admitted that most of the time events are held by not SPACE but outside companies for the purposes of fund raising or such.I asked him to comment- no answer.
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About government intervention - are you forgetting that SPACE is the one who invited the government officials already on their side ?
___________________________
Whatever you assume,please
just ask a question first.
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quote] Originally posted by Bob Orts
quote:
Originally posted by james weatherford
If the criteria is causing injury or deaths...
If it is necessary to be explicit, the criteria is the likelihood or probable risk of causing injury or death.
It is well known the risk of causing death or injury are considerable with high speed driving and ignoring stop signs or red lights, and very, very, very low for music and a farmers market.
The case of having music, farmers market, etc outside of the conditions of a Special Use Permit is not comparable to speeding and running a stop sign. The consequences are a universe apart.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
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"Have unpermitted activities at my house resulted in positive community benefits?
Yes. Well, at least I think so. That's all that matters, right?"
No, what one person thinks is not all that matters. Indeed, in the case of SPACE, positive community benefit is deemed to exist by the many, many people who regularly attend functions there.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
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