From SPACE down to Earth - the outcome?

[dmbwest]

Amen to that Carol.

[peregrine]

I appreciate the question, Greg. I had not heard of anyone not being allowed to vend based on using EBT to purchase there ingredients. What I can say about EBT is this: I know for fact that there are vendors (note plural) who use EBT to purchase ingredients to make food to sell and do not report the earnings to the Food Stamp Office. This, however, is not something that the SPACE management ever involved itself in, one way or another, the attitude on this subject (for all concerned) being somewhat "don't ask, don't tell". If there is more to this story than I know, I'm sure someone else will comment.

I understand what you are saying about the laws of economics, but, while it sounds alright in theory, the reality is that some people live in such poverty that earning any money is a necessity, even if the hourly wage breakdown is $2.50, if that is the only opportunity available to them. Furthermore, the situation with vendors at SPACE was that some were definitely given preferential treatment, based on varying factors. I recognize that cliques will always form and try to exert their will, none the less, codified regulations and standards for participation which gave anyone desiring to participate an equal chance would level the playing field a bit. As it was, participation was at the sole discretion of one person, with out so much as a list of procedures and qualifications in order to be considered for participation. That may have worked for a few months in the "experimental" stage, but once problems began to arise, they should have been properly addressed, not dismissed by saying "Love it or Leave it". Many "outside" vendors dedicated inestimable time and energy into making the market what it was, they should have had a voice in how it was run, or atleast a set of rules equally applied.

[peregrine]

Carol, I guess we have just had experience at completely different markets. I had never encountered an unregulated market before SPACE. I am also aware that some markets on the island are regulated. I know the money is never guaranteed, but it is important to have a certain amount of stability. I would venture to guess that a large percent of vendors at farmers markets do it because they for one reason or another cannot get a job with a regular paycheck. That was the case at SPACE; it was even being touted as a way to make money in an economy where jobs are hard to come by, in an area where many people don't do "9 to 5". I wonder if the markets you have previously participated in claimed to be of such vital importance to the sustainability and economic vitality of the area they served? Again I am asking that people practice what they preach, or preach what they practice. If SPACE wants to be an elite club with economic benefits for it's members alone, fine. Just don't call it Community. On the other hand, if they put out a call to the community, they should understand that the community will answer.

[Greg]

Regarding prepared food:

I know the Maku'u Market people require all food vendors to have the appropriate certifications and licensing. The SPACE market would be wise to require the same, even though it would probably hinder the more needy.

Regarding pre packaged or "Costco" bought items:

I feel the local marketers are doing a service by making these items available to people in one stop; (not having to drive to Hilo for russets) The vendors may or may not misrepresent their products origin or "organicity" and a certain degree of trust is required.

Don't believe the vendors claims? Don't buy.

Regarding regulation:

The Maku'u market is unregulated as far as what products are offered by vendors. They banned the selling of pipes a while ago, but did it over the board for everyone. They have had to eject vendors in the past for uncooperative or disruptive behavior.

Stoneface

[terry.way]

This is why SPACE wants to open a commercial kitchen. With a commercial kitchen, vendors can get legal Food Permits; everyone benefits.

The county health inspector did come to the market. He was interested in who had food permits, but he was clear that he didn't want to shut anyone down, he wanted everyone to *get* proper permitting. He came with carrots and sticks. The stick was: he might be back sometime soon, and THEN vendors without food permits would get fined.

Surprise! The market decided anyway. The busiest prepared-food vendors were the ones that prominently displayed their food permits (and why shouldn't they! they invested time and money into it) or cooked your food right in front of you.

I think we have found where the true problem is.

[StillHope]

Sorry to interrupt the Farmers market conversation.
I have more general questions .I'd appreciate if Terry comments
on how it(the SUP) was and will be done in Seaview .


1. Did the original SUP require a formal approval of the residents?

2. If it did,who signed the agreement ?

3.Will the Village Center permit require the residents approval?

4.If the residents approval required ,will it be some kind of voting

and/or who signs it?

[dmbwest]

Part of the prepared food permit also includes that the food MUST be done in a commercial kitchen too. There are not enough of these around and Resturant owners often field calls by sellers looking to rent or 'borrow' their kitchens to prepare food under the umbrella of said resturant ... Crazy liability there.

Stillhope, maybe you can walk up the street and get your answers right from the horses mouth.

[peregrine]

A little insight on renting commercial kitchen time: There is a list of commercial kitchens available. Most rent by the hour. But there is very little oversight as to whether the kitchen is actually being used or if there is just a rental agreement and the food is, in truth, prepared at home, a not uncommon occurrence.
Just a small clarification.

I am very interested in the answers to StillHope's questions. They are Key questions in all this debate.

[terry.way]

I just counted the speaker slips at the meeting.

We divided people who wanted to speak into two groups: "Seaview" and "Other"

18 people from Seaview spoke, one spoke twice.
25 people from other neighborhoods spoke.
5 people withdrew their slips, or were not present when called.

StillHope, I don't know the answers to your questions. I believe that the zoning laws require lots within a fixed distance to agree; the Puna CDP extends that distance. The Village Center designation requires neighbors, at least, to accept it. If it didn't, SPACE wouldn't have needed to hold a Community Relations Meeting :-)

When/if I find answers, I'll post.
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About the market rules, someone mentioned that there were no rules. I can post the rules, which each vendor is required to read and sign, if anyone is interested. It's a four page document.

Highlights include: "Vendors are responsible for complying to all state and federal laws pertaining to the products and services sold by them."

"Generally, grievances will be handled by the market manager. If the market manager is unable to resolve the grievance, a person may make a formal written complaint to the SPACE Advisory Board, which is responsible for policy making and guiding the operation of SPACE. The SPACE Advisory Board will issue a decision after a review."

"Vendors are expected to promote good fellowship, honest business practices and friendly customer service."

"No vendors are guaranteed the right to exclusively sell products."

"Any violation of the market policies may be cause for suspension, immediate eviction, and/or exclusion from the market."

I think we've found the problem.

[StillHope]

quote:

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Originally posted by terry.way

I just counted the speaker slips at the meeting.
I believe that the zoning laws require lots within a fixed distance to agree; the Puna CDP extends that distance. The Village Center designation requires neighbors, at least, to accept it. If it didn't, SPACE wouldn't have needed to hold a Community Relations Meeting :-)

When/if I find answers, I'll post.

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Thank you,Terry.I'd appreciate the information when you find it.

So at this point the results of the meeting is considered to be the official approval of this Village Center?