Guns in Hawaii

[DickWilson]

When and if I need your permission to "bark" or take exception to a post that indicates that abridging rights is acceptable, I'll let you know.

dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"

[DickWilson]

And While I'm at it. When I grew up, there was at least one firearm in every home, and in most cases several. Children were taught to respect and use firearm in a responsible manner. Firearms were available through the mail and there were no tower shootings, school shootings, or armed shoot outs with the police with a few exceptions. Then somewhere in the 60's when we were told that we needed to understand juvenile delinquents and "have compassion because someone grew up in a disadvantage home", Things turned to crap. We stopped throwing young scum in detention centers and instead started "counseling them". Draw your own conclusions, but I for one see a definite correlation. Violence in this country is societal in nature and is in no way linked to gun ownership.

dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"

[amf217]

Carried a gun for 30+ years even had to use it several times, Not a big fan of everyone having one but I will agree with Dick that a well trained armed person is not to be feared. Its the bozo that watch to many movies and think they are bad until somebody shots back. Most thugs are sprayers, they just shoot till its empty, thats why innocent people get hit. Still the less guns the better to me I don't care who has them.

[Kelena]

I'm 58. Your idyllic recollection of Happy Days days, Dick, must come from a television program by the same name. True, we were safer back then and could run wild in our neighborhoods without getting kidnapped. But that is because we cared about one another back then. It's not because we were taught, as young children, how to handle a gun.

The reason for America's descent into violent madness is very clear to me: we no longer feel that we are our brother's keeper and the social contract has been broken.We've adopted an Ayn Randian belief that selfishness and indifference to others is a virtue. Now it's every man for himself. When you couple that with the well known fact that violence is as American as apple pie, you have our current societal breakdown.

Don't blame social workers who are doing their level best to repair the damage. If anyone, blame Ayn Rand and her accolytes. (By the way, Rand died almost penniless, obsessed with germs and victimized by her friends. And I find it comical that her husband was a fey painter-- not quite Howard Roark or John Galt.)

This has nothing to do with the '60's. Counseling didn't cause this. Instead, the US has the highest rate of incarceration in the WORLD. Russia and South Africa are next. The prisons are full-to-bursting and are among the greatest expenses of the states. Guns and American culture don't mix. Hawaii has elected, through regulation, to discourage the kind of gun-happy insanity that has people openly packing right outside where the President is speaking. I remember President Kennedy getting shot and the blood on Jackie's dress. Then his brother. And MLK. The people reacted in many ways, including the very beginnings of gun regulation. Ever heard of James Brady? Yeah, he and his wife campaign for reasonable gun regulations. Of course, the gun manufacturers have fought back very successfully and apparently have people whining at the slighest inconvenience imposed on gun owners.

If you add guns to Hawaii, what you get is called Florida or Puerto Rico. We already have the frogs, thanks. Everyone should be wishing for fewer guns in Hawaii and not more. Guns are to Hawaii what brown snakes are to Guam. They will devour the song of paradise. Every resident of Hawaii should rue the day.

[DickWilson]

Contrary to your opinion Glen, I in fact did grow up in just the situation I described. I got my first gun a Red Ryder Daisy BB gun when I was 5. I carried it hunting with my father, both grandfathers and more uncles than I can recall. I was expected to treat that BB gun the same as any firearm and was disciplined for any safety infraction. I know for a fact that my father could not have found the key to our home if he had to. Firearms do in fact mix with America and have since the days of the pilgrims. They work in Hawaii also, there are thousands of responsible gun owners in this state who have jumped through all the hoops and use their firearms in a responsible manner. And the Brady people make no bones about the fact that their ultimate goal is to make firearms unavailable. My boys and now my grandchildren are hunters and there is no reason they should be denied that pass-time because there are criminals in the world. We can argue over what has caused the deterioration of American culture, and just from reading your post I rather strongly suspect that your idea of a slight inconvenience and mine will never be on the same page. I don't think being taught to use a firearm made us any safer from the criminal element. But I know for a fact that the criminal justice system dealt swiftly with those who needed it. No one sat on death row for decades while he diddled the system.

dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"

[missydog1]

quote:

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When I grew up, there was at least one firearm in every home, and in most cases several.

---

EVERY home? Where and when? I grew up in the 50's and 60's, and there most certainly was never a gun in the house. My parents have lived in the USA from the 20's to the present, and neither has ever owned a gun, and they've survived.

Look, I'm not some "unamerican" whatever it is you think I am. My ancestors came here in 1600, at least one served as an officer under Washington at Valley Forge. Three served in their state's militia during and after the Revolutionary War. I'm proud of their service.

My gr.gr. grandfather served as Gettysburg as a Major, as a battle surgeon, spent his service dealing with what cannons and guns do to the human body. I'm proud of his service too. I have a photo of him in uniform with his service rifle. Even surgeons carried guns. And my grandfather in his WWI uniform, proud of him too. Did he see the need to raise my father to use a gun in peacetime, no, he did not.

My people were on the American frontier. Daniel Boone is my first cousin (x times removed). Lots of guns owned and used over the generations ... and I played with toy guns when I was a kid -- but not real guns. I grew up in a world without so many crazy people, meth addicts, family annihilators, gangs, punks. serial killers, and kids raised on Natural Born Killer and video games ... things have changed.

A properly trained person with a gun is not a safety issue. (OK, unless he has a breakdown.) But there is no assurance that gun owners are properly trained or mentally stable, or sane, or honest -- and you still want everyone to have one? For every person on this topic who can tell a story of responsible gun ownership, there's probably a dozen guys living on their street who could be real menaces if they had them.

OK, well you pursue the America and Hawai'i that you want, and I'll vote for my vision, within the parameters of the Constitution (which may be legally amended).

I'm glad Glen is here as he is sensible, insightful, and not wedded to some notion of America that never was universally embraced.

My ancestors fought for a nation where men and women would not be pitted against each other one on one, gun against gun. They fought for a civilized nation.

[DickWilson]

OK Kathy H, there may have been a few homes without firearms, I never came across any of them back then and everyone I knew in fact had firearms. And you can certainly try to get the Constitution amended, to eliminate the 2nd Amendment, But the NRA and I will also be voting and I don't think that's going to happen.

dick wilson
"Nothing is idiot proof,because idiots are so ingenious!"

[kimo wires]

This is the hardest state to aquire any gun.
I have had guns all my life. Born into a Military Family, guns were a normal part of life. We have never had an incodent.
I found the permitting process in Hawaii a bit comical.
Especially the questionaire. "Have you ever been committed to a mental institution."
Who, filling this out, would answer yes to any of these questions?
even if they were true?
I was snickering as the cleark leered at me as if I was CRAZY!
I got the feeling that if they even suspected me of being mentally unstable...I would have been denied.

[csgray]

Kimo,
I can top that, in Indiana, as recently as the early 80s, when you got a marriage license one of the questions was "Are you now or have you ever been judged an imbecile?" If you were, you would never be able to understand the question.

Carol

[critterlover]

Carol shares: I can top that, in Indiana, as recently as the early 80s, when you got a marriage license one of the questions was "Are you now or have you ever been judged an imbecile?" If you were, you would never be able to understand the question.

ME: I am just thinking, the person who came up with that question may have had a skewed view of marriage?

Toni, who is a 'critter lover'
www.write-matters.com