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mdd, when you take away ventilation *edit* as the main design element for cooling *end edit*(which you would need to do if you fully insulate a house, otherwise the insulation would be pretty pointless, agreed?) then you create the need for either heat or cold to be brought into the house in order to circulate air, get rid of potentially damaging condensation and get the desired effect of either warmer or cooler (the typical reason for getting insulation in the first place). You are talking about something that is my line of work, my profession, and my passion. Building, permitting, codes, all of that. Proof? Start here: Contact a local architect. Contact a local engineer. Ask the professionals. Then let's discuss. Maybe on another thread?? I work with these professionals and have had long, long discussions about the topic.
If you completely seal up a house, then you're going to have condensation any time you bring heat into that house, especially in our tropical climate. You have to have some means of getting rid of that moisture. Here in Hawaii (where ARE you living, btw?) most house designs are very well designed without insulation, instead using ventilation to pull air up and out of a house, thereby getting rid of moisture, bringing in fresh air and cooling the structure, all at once.
Fern Forest. Last night it was 64. Coquis went all night, as usual. Sometimes it gets cold enough to quiet them down earlier in the night, not typically. Which begs the question, again, where do you live and where are you getting your 'facts'?
Enough catering to the sidelines, back to the issue. I posted a note to travelers on the trip advisor website, thanks for the tips! I've thought of painting something on our roof too, Bullwinkle, hahaaa! Rocket launcher! I was thinking we should just get a fake rocket launcher that puffs out smoke and makes a noise but no rocket. That's my reaction when I hear the copters most time: envisioning lighting the smoke belcher, boom! lol.
Melissa Fletcher
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quote:
Originally posted by YurtGirl
mdd, when you take away ventilation *edit* as the main design element for cooling *end edit*(which you would need to do if you fully insulate a house, otherwise the insulation would be pretty pointless, agreed?)
Yurtgirl, You are unclear on the concept of insulation. There is nothing about a well insulated house that precludes natural ventilation - the opposite occurs. My own home is heavily insulated and depends completely on natural ventilation for my comfort. Insulation does make natural ventilation easier to achieve and maintain. If you want to know more call me and come visit. I'll explain it all to you.
Rob 965-1555
Assume the best and ask questions.
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Our house is heavily insulated as well...and we have only natural ventilation. The place stays cool on the hottest days and warm on the coolest nights. And it's quieter inside too!
3Rd that ... We lived in a place in Fern Acres that was so tight you could not slam a door or cabinet shut no matter how hard you tried ... Never any problems with condensation or venting ...
aloha,
pog
hawaiideborah, I didn't make any assumption about where you come from, because I didn't know. I was talking about people in general, how we get used to noises -- the part about moving from the city was drawing on my own experience. (I've lived in both very rural areas and fairly urban areas, and suburbs too.)
I don't know why you think I spend part of my time in Alaska. I've never even been to Alaska.
I haven't left Hawai'i in the last eight years, except for three trips. One to Ireland in midsummer, two to the South Pacific. I haven't been in winter weather since 2001, and that was Northern California cold, not serious cold. My body is now set to shiver and shake when the temps hit the 50's. Some say the blood gets thinner. Not sure if that's a myth or for real.
The only assumption I made about you in my post was that you are fairly new to Hawai'i. I thought I read that in your posts. If I am wrong I apologize.
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Recent code amendment suggestions included roof, wall, door, window and floor insulation. That's wrapping up your house like a drum, certainly not designing it to work with insulation?? It's a practice far more geared toward freezing cold or incredibly hot climates. Unless I'm missing something? It's why I edited my post "...as the main design element for cooling". I like the idea of some insulation, but feel that ventilation is most important here. We use insulation in the yurts. It prevents them from heating up. We also use the 5' diameter skylight in the center that opens for a great, natural ventilation. So yes, I like insulation. I just don't like it as the main way to cool a house and I see no reason to force people to have it, especially if their homes are designed with excellent ventilation as the main means of cooling. When it gets chilly, it's easy enough to put a sweater and some socks on. It's never gotten more cold than that since I've lived here, unless we're talking about wayyy up mauka. Last night we could see our breath outside, but inside our bedroom, which is just a standard framed construction with drywall, no insulation, it was toasty warm, even had to kick the covers off.
Pog, I would imagine that you had ventilation and maybe you just didn't realize it if you never had problems with condensation. If you're in a humid environment, which Fern Acres is, and you cook something on the stove or turn on a heat source, without ventilation, the windows will likely fog up and the ceiling will often get a thin layer of wet. In a yurt, it all collects on the interior of the central dome, which is why we vent kitchens and recommend the dome be opened during cooking.
Ventilation doesn't need to be electric, i.e. fan, exhaust, etc. Natural ventilation often works great. The point is that it's a fundamental building design here and if you have enough of it, you won't need insulation. Can if you want! But not mandatory, as the building codes were trying to deem it.
Back to the helicopters. Black ones. Blue ones. Silver ones. We're yurt-sitting down the road, they'd be on a different route than we are. The copters fly over their place just as regularly. I'd love to get a flight path, something saying how many helicopters fly overhead on average in the entire subdivision. I bet it's astounding. If you don't like the copters either, comment under the trip advisory comment or on Tiffany's blog, http://www.bigislandchronicle.com/2010/1...ters-grrr/
Perhaps together we can make a difference. I know it's been griped about before, but maybe we were griping to the wrong people. If you get the tourists informed and involved and their money stops promoting these insensitive flight patterns, then I believe we'd start to see a change. Have a great week punawebbers!
Melissa Fletcher
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YurtGirl - The code requires double pane windows - it doesn't say you have to have them closed. By the way, how was it last night, in the cold? It was 58 at my place, you, being around 2300 feet elevation, must have been even colder? An insulated home would have retained some of that heat from the day before...
Dear Yurt Girl,
Um, yeah we opened stuff up ...
sheesh
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Pog, I think sometimes you read attitude into my posts where none is intended and you come back with it in spades. If you open up a window or door, then that would be ventilation. If you keep it all shut up tight, then there is no ventilation unless a house is designed with ventilation. Most houses in Hawaii are designed with ample ventilation.
mdd, current code does not require double pane windows. Not sure where you're getting your info, but you can double check this if you have a copy of the codes, or by calling the building department directly.
We're at 2100' elevation and yes, it was cold outside. It was not cold inside, except the portion of our house that is largely outdoor. Even that was completely comfortable w/ a light sweater. As I've said, we recommend insulation for yurts mostly to keep it cool during the day. That insulation also works to keep the yurt warm at night. Weather called for 64 degrees for the low, didn't double check it though.
There is a thread on all this under the building forum. It discusses ventilation, proposed code changes and more. That might be the better place to continue code/building conversations.
Melissa Fletcher
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"Make yurts, not war" Bill Coperthwaite, 1973
quote:
There is a thread on all this under the building forum. It discusses ventilation, proposed code changes and more. That might be the better place to continue code/building conversations.
Yes, I don't understand why the helicopter topic is going off into yurts at all -- or insulation.
The argument here seems to be that If YurtGirl had insulation, the helicopters wouldn't bother her? I'm not sure what the argument is.
1) This is about all the homeowners subject to the flight noise, not just those who live in yurts, so the construction of yurts is irrelevant.
2) A person has a right to peacefully enjoy property inside or outside. Even if all affected homeowners had insulation up the wazoo, what if they want to enjoy the lanai or the yard?
YurtGirl started the topic, and she might have an interest in talking about the specific experience of living in a yurt under a flight path -- but she herself is saying that the building code discussion belongs in another topic, another forum.
Seems to me the topic is getting all muddied up and could stand a course correction.
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