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Coincidentally? in the news today:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-5...ationwide/
Number of pot plants eradicated drops nationwide
There are all kinds of question marks in the report. The marijuana eradication program is a DEA program. There are probably laws but they just usually find the grow, pull it all out and try to arrest anybody nearby or suspicious (probable cause). Nobody is going to grow on their own property unless they are a designated medicinal marijuana provider. Like they said, they check if the property is a provider property or not. If not, they just pull it all out. Probably no real hidden agenda, just the fed actually believing cannabis can be eradicated to extinction.
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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Oink there are some other factors....
There is a growing population here that was not here when GH started....but the methods have not kept up with the fact this area does have more people... I complained when I saw a helicopter well below any of the FAA safe flying guidelines, right above a school & in area that had 4 schools directly in the flight path (less than 1/2 mile separates them) and very near 2 other schools, several senior living homes, fire, police & shopping facilities....all but one of the schools less than 1/2 mile from the flight path, the other school campus is a mile away...
If you think that that type of flying is OK & would welcome it over your schools, then fine for you....I do NOT think that that type of flying is OK, and I complained.... (Oh, & thanks for labeling us all as druggies....what a hoot!)
Also many areas of the US will do property confiscation, even if the landowner is absent.... have not heard of any absentee landowners being held responsible here...
Also, I doubt many places in the US have anywhere near the number of QUALIFIED civilian helicopter pilots that would be able to fly the GH....To be qualified to fly the air tours, these guys are that good... and we have more now than in the past (thanks to the last few years lava that is fairly inaccessible, but the view very desirable.... and the boats... when we have 2 - 3 boats in harbor or a new breakout, we actually have pilots in from other regions of the county & the state....these guys can be called on for GH....
If the lava ever does move again, perhaps the chopper routes will change, they may go over different areas, who knows, maybe they will get to visit Kau....or right over east Kapoho...or....maybe we will be lucky & Haleakala will re-ignite..... Ah, living with Pele, you really never do know where she will visit next, but hopefully the choppers will follow her!
Added - to Oink reply below - I should have stated that the # of pilots/capita in this one county - pretty sure this is one of the highest.... and HELICOPTER flight school grads would need a lot of airtime to meet FAA airtour guidelines here....so still think you will be hard presses to find one county with the # of qualified helicopter airtour pilots....
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quote:
Originally posted by rainshadow: will it include which of the populaces you will belong to when you arrive in Puna?
I'm not sure what you mean. I will be me. I'm not claiming the "labels" are necessarily accurate. I was giving my possible interpretations of the situation as I see it from my current perspective. From my limited perspective, based largely on what I've read on the B.I. forums and blogs, those are the views that seem exist on island regarding this issue. At least those views would offer explanations to me for the current status of the issue. My own view will probably be largely dependent on just how annoying I find them to be at the time.
I don't care if you or any other adult smokes pot in their own home. I don't even care if you grow a plant for your own use in your closet. However, if you were to have a commercial grow I would likely dime you out. I wouldn't want that type of crime magnet next door, in my neighborhood or anywhere in my community.
quote:
Originally posted by Carey: Oink there are some other factors....
1) There is a growing population here that was not here when GH started....but the methods have not kept up with the fact this area does have more people.......
2) If you think that that type of flying is OK & would welcome it over your schools.......... 3) Also many areas of the US will do property confiscation, even if the landowner is absent.... have not heard of any absentee landowners being held responsible here............... 4) Also, I doubt many places in the US have anywhere near the number of QUALIFIED civilian helicopter pilots that would be able to fly the GH
1)That makes some sense. 2) No, I would not approve of dangerous flying that put the general populace at risk. 3) I've not heard of property confiscation of uninvolved property owners anywhere. I think they would have to be shown as knowingly negligent somehow and not just innocent property owners. 4) There are plenty of pilots here and plenty of flight schools too. Some of your pilots probably learned in this area at one of the schools.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
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Here's my two cents worth;
The war on drugs, like most other wars, is driven by one major factor; Profit.
The drug war, like the others, is expensive. These "costs" can also be looked at as "income" for those participating.
Some questions;
Does it cost us a thousand dollars an hour to rent an aircraft or does someone make a thousand an hour providing it? The answer is both. The same can be said of the hazardous duty pay, overtime, and all the other logistical considerations of waging a war.
Economic law of supply and demand dictate that the war sustains a premium price for pot. Is this a detriment or an incentive for growers?
Has this decades long war been successful? Has either the supply or demand of Marijuana declined?
I don't think so. All I'm sure of is that lots of people on both sides of the issue are making money. Where's the incentive to stop?
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quote:
1 Green Harvest
A. The overflights aren't really that frequent or annoying and their benefit
of erradicating illegal grows far outweighs the small annoyance caused by the
overflights. Those leading the outcry against them are mostly growers,
wannabe growers and pot smoking sympathizers with an underlying, unsavory
vested interest in stopping them.
or
B. The overflights are truly annoying and oppressive, but the PD, the DEA and
the County government in general, consider the Puna area (and possibly others)
to be primarily populated by illegal growers, wanabe growers, potheads,
sympathizers or other undesirables for which the afore-mentioned government
organizations have little respect or use. Officials don't consider residents of
the area will ever have enough political clout to be of much concern.
Therefore, as they consider the residents of the area to be primairily
composed of undesirables, many engaged in illegal activity, they have little
concern the overflights are annoying the populace, and may in fact consider
annoying and harrassing the populace to be a legitimate activity akin to
parking a patrol car in front of a drug dealer's house.
You're not far off the mark but there's no way I can accept that a patrol car in front of a dealer's house is comparable to having your home and yard inspected by helicopter. I don't grow anything illegal, as far as I'm aware I'm not someone the police wish to target. I do nothing illegal in my house or yard yet I have helicopters fly over my property and checking if I'm in compliance in the law.
You can't compare this to a patrol car sitting at the side of a street, a public place, to having your own yard inspected by air.
This is the sort of thing I thought the US was against. I'd expect this in the old communist USSR and perhaps some other European countries, in fact I saw it in the UK 20 years ago - military helicopters buzzing everyone in Belfast but it was OK then because they were looking for terrorists with bombs. Not that they were very successful but that's another story.
Here it's just an invasion of privacy and in my own case they are not allowing me to enjoy my own property. That's something I thought the US constitution was supposed to protect.
Tom
http://apacificview.blogspot.com/
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quote:
Originally posted by TomK: You're not far off the mark but there's no way I can accept that a patrol car in front of a dealer's house is comparable...
Yeah, the analogy is a bit lopsided but it's the only one I could think of at the time.
If it's "B", I certainly don't agree with the attitude but it does explain the situation, if true. They would also have to be discounting those residents living in the affected area that don't fit the profile, regardless of how few they think there are, unless they think those residents approve of the program. I agree that it would be wrong, that's why I figure the P.D., DEA and the County would have to be complicit. The State government also would have to be complicit, at least by ignoring the issue. Of course it's doubtful the State would care if the Mayors office isn't bothered by it, which it obviously isn't. Who controls the Chief of the P.D.? Who controls or appoints the Police Commission?
If you're saying "B" is correct, then I tend to think it might be. The only "kind" explanation (not excuse) would then be that provided by Carey. I find that a stretch, unless the activity is primarily restricted to sparsely populated areas.
As for Greg's theory, I don't buy it, at least not at the local level of administration. Of course as it relates to the involved local P.D. officers, if they are like most cops, they will take any O.T. they can get. I don't think the Chief and his administration are personally profiting from the G.H. program.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
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Joined: May 2006
Here are a few links that, imho, substantiate the understanding being discussed, regarding the business of our government engaging in endless drug war for endless profits.
Cocaine Cowboys Know Best Places to Bank
By Jonathan Weil, Bloomberg News
<http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/279-82/12756-focus-cocaine-cowboys-know-best-places-to-bank>
Former DEA Head Says CIA Smuggled Drugs Into the USA
<http://www.pot.tv/video/2012/06/07/Former-DEA-Head-Says-CIA-Smuggled-Drugs-USA>
"Drug Money Used to Bail Out Bank
Drug money has been floating banks through the crisis in some countries. Reuters, via Credit Writedowns, reports:
Vienna – The United Nations’ crime and drug watchdog has indications that money made in illicit drug trade has been used to keep banks afloat in the global financial crisis, its head was quoted as saying on Sunday.
Vienna-based UNODC Executive Director Antonio Maria Costa said in an interview released by Austrian weekly Profil that drug money often became the only available capital when the crisis spiralled out of control last year.
“In many instances, drug money is currently the only liquid investment capital,” Costa was quoted as saying by Profil. “In the second half of 2008, liquidity was the banking system’s main problem and hence liquid capital became an important factor.”
The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime had found evidence that “interbank loans were funded by money that originated from drug trade and other illegal activities,” Costa was quoted as saying. There were “signs that some banks were rescued in that way.”"
<http://www.businesspundit.com/drug-money-used-to-bail-out-banks/>
Lee Eisenstein
http://members.cruzio.com/~lionel/event
"Be kinder than necessary, as everyone you meet is engaged in some kind of strudel."
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Not sure why second link didn't work in last post.
Here it is again.
pot.tv/video/2012/06/07/Former-DEA-Head-Says-CIA-Smuggled-Drugs-USA
Lee Eisenstein
http://members.cruzio.com/~lionel/event
"Be kinder than necessary, as everyone you meet is engaged in some kind of strudel."
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Oink,
I agree that it's unlikely that the police higher-ups are illicitly profiting from Green harvest.
My point was that marijuana growing/eradication is a thriving business on both sides of the spectrum, so there's not as much motivation break the cycle as people would like to believe.
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I know this is an old topic, but I found a document I had mentioned earlier from the Hawaii Police Dept. signed by Harry Kim while he was mayor and the previous police chief James S. Correa. I found this document in 2008 and downloaded it. Funny, although it was signed 10 years ago and I found it 4 years ago, I tried to pull up the website and it can no longer be found. It used to be under the hawaiipolice.com website.
I thought it would be interesting if others knew what it said. I know it doesnt matter either way but interesting to say the least.
Section 3. Policy
For the safety and welfare of the public and law enforcement personnel and to maintain a consistent operating procedure and ensure public confidence in the program, all members participating in marijuana eradication operations and other marijuana enforcement efforts shall adhere to the policies and procedures as set forth by the Hawaii Police Department. Members may include personnel from other law enforcement agencies assisting the Hawaii Police Department in marijuana eradication enforcement efforts.
Section 4. Helicopter Reconnaissance Mission
Part B.
Police aerial observers who are taking part in a marijuana reconnaissance mission shall make every reasonable effort to ensure that the aircraft maintains a minimum altitude of 1000 ft while directly over homes, buildings, urban and rural areas used mainly for family dwellings and immediate areas where livestock is contained. Should probable cause exist that illegal marijuana plants are being cultivated; the helicopter may descend to a minimum altitude of 500ft.
Section 5 Marijuana Eradication Operations
part D.
The helicopter, during marijuana eradication operations, may descend below the altitude of 500 feet to insert and extract police personnel from illegal marijuana fields and to remove harvested illegal marijuana plants and equipment.
part F.
Flights over homes and buildings shall be avoided, when airlifting by long-line, personnel, harvested marijuana and equipment.
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