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Hello all. Spent my last two days off from work reading many of the old threads here. Gained some really valuable information. thanks to all for their great insight. But................ I still have lots of questions. Feel free to answer any you can for me. It is greatly appreciated.
1. We will be arriving in February to look at property in the area. as of RIGHT NOW, is it possible or a problem due to the lava flow? (i know you cant tell the future)
2. What area is best for me based on my criteria
a. 3 acre parcel around 10k per acre is our limit. might pay a little more if justified. Square lots preferable. no noodles or possible buy two lots together to make them more symmetrical
b. enough sun for solar , enough rain for catchment (family of 3)
c. I want peace and quiet and peace of mind (not worry about theft and not a lot of traffic. i have no problem living in BFE
d. somewhere I'm less likely to be hassled about my unpermitted structure
e. Somewhere i can grow my own food (some soil and proper weather)
f. Must be Wooded!!!!!! No lava field living for me. Doesn't have to be thick jungle, but at least some growth to hide my family and not see my neighbors
G. cell service would be nice as both my wife and I can work on line from home.
3. Can i get a cesspool dug without a permit? preferably when i do some excavating and clearing of the land. Will a reputable company do this for me? or will i need a fly by night kind of guy?
4. What is the average cost of 1 acre clearing/excavating?
5. Ballpark cost for middle of the road solar set up? family of three who like to watch movies and need computers a few hours a day. going propane for cooking/hot water.I imagine 8-9 panels. and what set up would you recommend for that price.
6. cost for a 10k gal catchment system. (Ive read around 3K. just wondering if this is still accurate)
7. How are the schools in the area? My child is 3 and will be looking to send to kindergarten in a few years. But I am a teacher and willing to home school if that is the better option. But I would like her to learn social skills at an early age.
8. Any food co-ops in the area? Or local produce barter/trading websites?
9. what (in your opinion) is the greatest advantage and disadvantage to living on the Big island?
anyways................ thanks to all here who have helped me learn so much. And thanks in advanced to any who can answer some of my questions.
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I am not going to try to address all your questions but will tackle a few....
The conventional wisdom on Punaweb is to rent first and get to know the area.
As you are likely aware the current lava flow is disrupting a lot of conventional wisdom. No one knows where the lava will flow over the next months/years.
I am not sure what your main goals are but the cheapest land will likely be choked with guava stands. This will provide privacy but will also require heavy equipment to clear acreage. More acres means more work. There is little soil in these areas so "farming" becomes a challenge.
Any building or cesspool work is best done with a permit. Knowing that I would think that a cesspool could be done by most anyone and it is a fact that a cesspool can be approved after the fact unless cesspools are eventually banned... which could happen.
I would say the best schools for young students are privately run or charter and have waiting lists.
The greatest advantage/disadvantage, to me, is that the Big Island is like a time machine. Step back 30 years. There are good things and bad things about that. Property taxes are low and permitting is cheap. Things like cesspools are still allowed. Recycling is minimal. Haul your own trash. Land is cheap. Many people here are able to build a home for themselves without a mortgage. Low on violent crime, high on property crime. A bad place to look for a job. Bring your own job with you.
Good luck.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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Every time the 'to permit, or not to permit' question comes up, I ask the future builder how much they want to work on neighbor relations!
This county does not actively seek out non-compliance, YET, so the only thing you have to do in areas without building covenants or restrictions, if you are going to build without a permit, is make sure that your neighbors & every one that knows about your project are OK with what you are doing and you stay on great terms with all of them, as these would be the only people that would turn you in... of course building your own cesspool or septic here could be a monumental task, and knowing the substructure of your lot is not an easy task of checking a soils map &/or digging a few perc test holes!
As far as how likely is that, it depends on the neighbors that happen to be in your neighborhood, and wether anything you do pisses them off... the worst thing here is dealing with a pissed off ol' time neighbor! (don't worry, you will never get to the ol' time status in most building areas here - as most have generations old residents... even subdivisions made in the 50's have residents that have been there since the beginning...)
I am not a permit freak, know most of us do at least some work, that should have needed a permit, without one, and REALLY know that here, a permit really does not mean anything about the quality of construction...have seen enough permitted finaled structures here without some very basic things, like framing for windows & doors and incorrect wiring, to realize here it is only about the quality of the builder/contractor/assistant that actually does the work, and the permit is just a meaningless piece of paper... unless you go to sell, finance, or piss of a neighbor...
Cell reception does vary a lot around here, with different carriers & phones giving vastly different results...and of course, the farther you are from things like paved roads, the more variable the reception (and it also seems that the less expensive lands seem to be away from the better reception areas...but your results would be what matter...)
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Yes: it's all about the neighbors. Every subdivision is different, and they're so large that many have different areas within. The trick is finding one that fits your idea of "neighborhood"; various grades of "country style" are available, some of which are "permit optional".
Note that grid power attracts neighbors. It also increases the assessed property value.
Rule of thumb: the further you are from the pavement, the less likely you'll be bothered by County, especially if on a "private" road.
Advantage: lifestyle options that aren't available most places;
Disadvantage: "you're not getting it today", expensive shipping, and it can be very difficult to earn a living (best bring plenty money).
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You've done a good job of identifying your criteria. Just about anywhere in Puna is fine for water catchment. The lower rainfall areas require more roof to catch water and a larger tank to get you through the dry periods. Rainfall maps are available on many real estate sites. Solar will work anywhere, even up to Volcano. It's the opposite trend to water catchment. The higher the rainfall, the more panels you need to capture enough electricity and the more batteries you need for those longer dark rainy periods. Almost the entire Puna district is forested although there are a few areas of recent flows with no forest.
Orchidland to Fern Forest would be my rough suggestion on where you want to go. The problem is much of those subdivisions lack the soil you think you want. If you really want soil, try north of Hwy 11 - areas like Ola'a farm lots. Parcels there tend to be larger, but you can get 5 acres for around 50k. Soil depth varies and you'd need to check each lot separately. That said, lots of soil means you get a mud pit when it rains. You can always build up areas to plant gardens by ripping, importing black cinder and adding compost.
As others have said, building un-permitted is very doable, but you need to be discrete, a good neighbor and select your location. I know that Hawaiian Acres, Eden Roc and Fern Forest are fairly accepting of un-permitted dwellings. Leilani is definitely not. Others are somewhere in between. A good way to search for property is to use bigislandreale.com - their web site is the best way I've found for searching for properties you are interested in. You do need to sign up to get access to all of the features, but they haven't been a problem in terms of spamming me (and of course I have a separate email account for signing up for things on the internet).
2 years ago when I put in my catchment, it cost me about 3k plus pump/pressure tank. It's a bit more now - call one of the catchment companies for prices but add in the cost of levelling a spot, crush rock and sand.
Cell coverage maps are available from most major providers. 3g and 4g coverage is pretty good.
Me ka ha`aha`a,
Mike
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I'd look at HA, as it would seem to fit most of your criteria (except the soil part; but that's most anywhere south of 11).
As to the island (and Puna in particular) I'd expect to slow down, be creatively self-sufficient, and patiently learn to go with the flow.
Oh yeah, follow Carey's advice and be a good neighbor... Good relations are a currency in and of themselves.
Good luck!
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I'm finally here, but really enjoyed reading the information. Thanks all. So far, I'm really happy with our subdivision. Been here just over two months. Do not feel that I've really "mingled" as much as I had hoped to do by now...but wow, we've been busy!
Best wishes
Best wishes
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I'd look at HA, as it would seem to fit most of your criteria (except the soil part; but that's most anywhere south of 11).
There are pockets of dirt in HA, these can be seen either on the State IAL maps or by comparing the size of the ohia, they tend towards the "middle" of the subdivision where some of the worst flooding (and roads) are located.
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Rent 1st - at least ONE year minimum.
Lacking cell reception is common.Depends on carrier and where in Puna you wish to be.
Do NOT piss off your neighbors.Some of us have been here all our lives.
No jobs here.Bring tons of money with you.
Fern Forest may be your best option as far as no permits.
There are a handful of long time residents in HA who will turn you in to the county in a heart beat .
No soil in HA,flooding is an issue as is higher property crime and drugs.
Solar depends,if doing it yourself or hiring a company to do it for you.
Water catchment depending on sizes,3 to 6 grand.
Volcano has an excellent charter school,one of the best in puna.FF is much closer for your child.
It is an island,every thing is shipped in,hence costs much more than where ever you are coming from .
Rent 1st - a year or 3 even so you can understand the dynamic of your choices,end lets not ever forget there can be HUGE earth quakes every so often,or months and months of rain,or no rain for months .
A code cesspool is best regardless if no permit on dwelling.It is the sub tropics and you do not want diseases from your poop in the sense of flies or neighbors getting deathly ill and traced back to you.
If you want deep soil,up hamakua side is far better.
Remember - RENT 1st - a minimum of one year,3 is better.
Good luck
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Orchidland has no soil, other than a few inches of pig mud, but that doesn't mean you can't grow your on food. Our lot was ripped by a previous owner who started a guava farm. (Ripped meaning the first layer of lava is ripped up and the land re-flattened by a bulldozer so tree roots have some place to go and search for nutrients). I don't know how much it costs to rip and roll 3 acres but last figure I heard was around 10k. It's great for growing trees and grasses/weeds for the livestock. We made raised beds for growing vegetables etc however the pestilence here was insurmountable for us, so we trade for or buy many of our vegetables. I have had good luck growing vegetables in containers inside a screened area and plan to expand on that some day. If you are considering any agricultural operation, plan on your land being infested with little fire ants. Even if your lot doesn't have them now, eventually you will.
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