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quote:
Originally posted by Frankie Stapleton
Who in their right minds would invest in such an unstable area?
...tens of thousands of us live on.
These two sentences often get combined in the Pahoa and Puna area regarding any kind of development. Aren't the "tens of thousands of us" investing in this area? If the average price of a home was $100,000, just a thousand would be $100 million invested in this area. If there are "tens of thousands", then are all these people not in their right mind? (this question may be rhetorical if only applied to the Puna area). And the bottleneck of Hwy 130 is due to the tens of thousands, not the one or two industrial developments in Puna. Are all of these people immune to lava flow and only the geothermal plants are at risk? And unlike a lot of the people living in Puna, a geothermal plant will have insurance protecting them from losses due to earthquakes and lava flows. The active part of a geothermal plant are the well holes, and well, they look just like small holes if the plant isn't there. PGV has said their plant is designed to be disassembled and moved in the event of a threatening lava flow, and even then, the plant infrastructure on the surface is so old that it would just be sold for scrap. Just a comment to examine the lack of logic in some of the perceptions floating around Puna.
"It was a majority decision to descend into the Dark Ages. Don't worry, be happy, bang on da drum all day! Onward to Elysium."
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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Being against geothermal on the Big Island is, in effect, being for burning imported oil to create the electricity that the island needs. It also means being for the continuing HELCO rate charge increases that reflect the rising price of this imported oil. I'm sorry, but using solar, wind, hydro, etc. for electricity generation is just not going to come close to what the island requires (at least in the foreseeable future).
And what will happen when one of these tankers delivering the oil goes aground during a storm off Puna and ruins the coastline? What will the anti geothermal crowd say then?
Geothermal power plants operate safely all over the world. There is no reason why they couldn't be run safely on the Big Island.
-Veritas odium parit”(Terence 195–159 BC))-"Truth begets hatred".
-Veritas odium parit”(Terence 195–159 BC))-"Truth begets hatred".
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Cagary 100% in what you stated, Burn OIL or use NATURE to help
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quote:
Originally posted by Obie
quote:
Originally posted by Pilgrim
quote:
My reaction is the people who commented here are whacked out and smoke way too much pot!!!
I agree - but...
Too much, or not enough???
They are severely paranoid !!
I guess long term use is the reason for their continual irrational comments!!
An what is Obie's reason for continual irrational comments?
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Sorry, but I moved to lower Puna 35 years ago, before geothermal was even talked about publicly but we were consistently promised there was another highway going to be built, at that time on Railroad Avenue.
Then retired military and others moved heavily into Hawaiian Paradise Park (HPP)and volunteered to serve on the County/State Transportation Committee which met during the day when non-retirees had to work. And the Transportation Committee took the alternate highway off the TOP of the state's priority list while most of us weren't looking. Check the state record if you don't believe me.
Later, after I'd retired, it was my experience on the Puna Community Development Plan transportation committee meetings that made me realize most of the people on that committee from HPP were on it to make sure no alternative highway went through their subdivision! Between NIMBY HPPers and Shipman Estate, they've been able to stymie a new, shorter route to Hilo all these years while the descendants of the old guard who built these speculative, substandard subdivisions continue to benefit.
There are more than 40 subdivisions in Puna, all substandard, IMHO. HPP has about 8,400 lots, Nanawale is second with 4,200 lots. Only about 600 of Nanawale's lots have structures on them (and those lots are generally less than 1/5 of an acre!). Can you imagine what it's going to be like when it's even half built? And it is just a couple of miles from the geothermal plant.
Eminent domain law should be put into effect to build an alternate highway (not a 2-lane unpaved road either) out of lower Puna. Yes, there are literally tens of thousands of people living down here. Check your census figures!
Lower Puna provides the cheapest land in the state so in essence, many neighborhoods are like green ghettos. Because the cheapest living ends up being home to the poorest people. Those with the least clout politically!
And that's also why people in Hilo and Kona and Honolulu keep screaming for more geothermal development (Puna is the only PROVEN source in the state) as they mistakenly think that more geothermal is going to lower their electric bills.
And geothermal is the most industrialized, most expensive alternate energy source we have these days. Whoever it was above who said solar and wind are not viable here were only half correct....solar is being proven more and more here to be a reliable, clean alternate energy source.
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Frankie:
Again, I have to agree with you.
A second escape route must go through the Puna Makai subdivisions.
If not, in the case of evacuations, HPP and other subdivisions at the top of hgwy 130 must be sealed off pending the completion of the evacuation of lower Puna. Period.
Don't like it?
Then do PMAR. On Railroad.
The coast road is too vulnerable to tsunamis and forest fires to be a viable escape route.
Those who for their own selfish reasons do not want a properly located PMAR are potentially sentencing
their fellow citizens in lower and central Puna to death in an evacuation emergency.
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In Alaska, as most of you probably know, we get permafund $ each year from oil revenues. If Puna area is at risk by geothermal development then they should be compensated. What if Puna residents that OWN property in Puna were given a percentage of the revenues from geothermal development? Here you have to be a resident for 1 year from December to December before you can receive permafund $. So if you moved here say on January 15 your one year would not begin to count until the next December, you would be here over 2 years before you ever received a permafund.
islandgirl
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If we're going to bribe people directly, let's start with a tour helicopter levy, please?
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quote:
Originally posted by Cagary
Geothermal power plants operate safely all over the world. There is no reason why they couldn't be run safely on the Big Island.
No reason? Seriously? That's hilarious, as history shows.
With ACTUAL regulation (not imagined by HELCO etc), you may be right. But, there's none of that - it's a $$$ free-for-all, and it's disgusting to see the displays of greed cast as 'caring for our community's energy needs'. Talk to the people living next to HGV about regulation, about 'being run safely'. Geothermal applied carelessly helps no one but the upper money grubbers.
Do it RIGHT, or get the hell[co] out.
The other thing is... if you don't believe solar (for example) is the answer, then you haven't tried it. If everybody took personal responsibility for sustainable energy generation, the world would look a LOT different.
-- rainshadow
-- rainshadow
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Most people that work for a living here do so in businesses that require the power grid, and part of that power comes from geothermal. It's true that many mistakes were made during geothermal developement in Puna. Most of them were made twenty years ago. It's a new generation of technology and people now. With all of the things that smart people have shown they can do, is this going to be the one thing that stumps them? I sure hope not. I expect new collection and storage technology will someday mean solar can take on much more of the load. Untill then though the less stuff we have to import, just to burn it up, the better off we will be.
Jay
Jay
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