Well there is a great example of two different views and people beyond there economic status. Russell and Sputnut, both have ideas and different opinions of what may be better for the minimum wage worker. One see's mothers, daughters, sons and fathers( thank you Russell. The other goes by quotes from thousands of years ago and goes on to call the hard working doing jobs others strive not to LAZY. (thank you sputs. Although I agree with you Sputnut, Raising the minimum may not be the answer ALONE. Kalakoa brought up a valid point also about inflation and stuck wages. OR what about a different wage completely for these types of larger corp jobs? Folks use to wait on working lists to get in on the mill work, coal, even steel mills had waiting list for those jobs ( Different reasons than todays list's wanting to work for Burger kings, Walmarts, or other large new age money makers.)
Posts: 193
Threads: 22
Joined: Mar 2013
Wrong. Don't twist what I said. Many people, myself included, have worked for minimum wage, but worked hard and either got promoted or found better jobs. Those who continue to make only minimum wage after 2-3 years most likely aren't the cream of the crop, otherwise they would have moved up or on. I have seen the ones, we all have, who drag along as slowly as possible at their job, not even trying to go faster or do better, yet they are right in front many times in demanding more money for what they call work. Ones working hard will not be making min. wage in 2 years unless they are happy with it. They will have moved up in their own company or moved on to a better one.
What I quoted is God's word which therefore makes it always valid, correct, and reliable unless it's simple logic is twisted by someone for their own gain. There is a difference between can't work and won't work, and the Biblical quote says won't. If someone won't work, why should anyone pay them at all? There are too many out there who want to work and will work hard.
comin' your way soon!
comin' your way soon!
Sorry Sputnut, I may have reached and misread your words. What you last said really was good, in fact some of your best. Maybe riling you or pushing a button can do that?. Anyway I am sorry if you took offense and I will try and do better next time. P.S I have no idea what I am talking or writing about when it comes to the Bible, Lessons learned.
Posts: 7,754
Threads: 687
Joined: Jun 2011
quote:
Originally posted by Russell
Wow, it is so strange to be attacked for contributing to the discussion. Snark much?
Terracore - If ever I'm asking someone to sing my praises, I'll make the request clearly, and I surely won't ask you. Try addressing the actual points raised - no one else is hearing the voices in your head.
For those who oppose a wage increase, let's carry your logic to its conclusion - abolish the minimum wage or make it 50c/ hour. Is that the society you desire? Shall we move toward China's labor policies? Or shall we be our brother's keeper, and care about the least among us?
Russell
Since you didn't address the points I raised I must assume they are correct, the real reason you support raising the minimum wage is to drive out your competitors who could never afford it. It's a smart business decision, but the fact that you are introducing legislation to raise the minimum wage to drive your competitors out of business is an immoral use of the legislative process. That is not the voices in my head talking. You are using the same tactics Monsanto uses.
I'm not against a minimum wage by any means. As I've stated I've been a minimum wage earner and as an employer I always paid above the minimum wage. What I am against is an unrealistic expectation that every job pay a "living" wage. Not everybody needs to live off the money the jobs pay, therefore they don't have to be living wages. Considering that costs vary so much, I think the individual states should decide what is best for them rather than it being another federal mandate.
Posts: 8,472
Threads: 1,033
Joined: May 2003
Terracore, I thing you are assuming too much. It is not a good habit to attribute motives to people that they do not themselves. It's like accusing someone who is against war of being sympathetic to Hitler or Pol Pot. Why stretch it so far?
The life fact of minimum wage as practiced here has not kept up with the realities of worker abuse by (mostly) corporate entities. We used to be a country of long term goals and planning. Those days have been replaced with short term thinking and has resulted, in my opinion, with millions unemployed or under employed. Minimum wage law has not kept up with that reality or with the fact the what once was a "starter" position in life has devolved to being the only source of income for too many hard working families.
I do also take issue with the statement that if you work hard you will get ahead. While that once may have been a reasonable statement - to a substantial degree those days are gone. It took me some time to realize this is a capitalistic society (not a laboristic one) where capital is richly rewarded in ways that honest labor is not. I am not against rewarding producers. I am against overly rewarding people that do nothing but manipulate other people's money - often our money.
Then we have the fact here in Hawaii where our educational and political institutions are largely failing us. Hawaii is politically imbalanced and being basically a one party state for sixty years has served some very well but has also marginalized too many average citizens.
I support a living wage.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
Posts: 193
Threads: 22
Joined: Mar 2013
Gyp.. mocking? Isn't that beneath you?
comin' your way soon!
comin' your way soon!
Posts: 2,014
Threads: 46
Joined: Jun 2003
Perhaps the solution is one of equality :
Raise in minimum wage EQUALS reduction in Corporate taxes EQUALS Reduction in government paid benefits.
.
Same $$ just shifted around. Of course our government would never allow it. Too many people would benefit and no glory for buying votes. Sharing the wealth is only an option if the government is seen as benefactor. Nor would it be an acceptable solution to many posting either.
As for the healthy eating, can't remember the link, but a recent study determined that the cost difference was surprisingly low. On a more personal level, when I see someone sucking down cigs or engaging in any number of other unhealthy choices, their choice of bread isn't high on my radar.
David
Ninole Resident
Please visit vacation.ninolehawaii.com
Ninole Resident
Posts: 193
Threads: 22
Joined: Mar 2013
Rob, I somewhat disagree. It's not as easy as it once was, but still doable. If you are a good worker- hardworking, honest, reliable- you won't make minwage for long, even today.
What people think of these days as a living wage is a lot more than many were happy to live on at one time, though.( in buying power, not actual dollar count) I haven't made 30g in a year, ever.(not doing anything illegal, either. No food stamps or welfare or housing assistance either, even though we might qualify.) I'm not starving, fat and white, remember? I have hi speed internet and a 32 inch flat screen etc. I'm not rich by this country's standards. By most of the rest of the world's, yes.
We just don't waste money. I don't need the latest iphone every 3 months, or a 75 inch 3d tv or a new car for each of us every 3 years, eat out all the time etc. If you can afford those things, fine. Many who cannot are going tens of thousands into debt to have them so as to not seem poor, and that is why they are poor and will always be. People used to save for what they wanted, took care of what they had, and learned to be happy with it. There isn't anything wrong with that.
BTW. The Bible teaches that, too. Work hard for what you get and be content with what you have. (2 thes 3:9-11,Proverbs 6:6-8
& Heb 13:5 , 1 tim 6:7,8)
comin' your way soon!
comin' your way soon!
This is a cause and effect issue as most issues are. In this case prices are getting so high that people are having trouble affording a certain level of lifestyle, not just low income earners who can't afford to support themselves, but also middle income earners being pushed down into the lower income. So as a result people want to increase their income to compensate, we are not even getting into the issue of fixed incomes or those living off of savings or retirement. This is not dealing with the issue directly, the issue being the rise in prices. Why are the prices rising so fast? This is the real issue. There was once a time in this country were prices did not rise like this, in fact prices were stable for more then a century following the founding of this country. Why can't we afford to live on the wages that sustained people before? Why have prices risen and employment and wages stagnated? How is there a class of people who seem to be immune to the economic forces effecting the vast majority? Find the answer to these questions and you will probably end up depressed and bitter. However only once everyone understands the bitter depressing truth can we work to fix the real problem.
This is not just an issue of lazy workers, that will always be an issue at play separating the go getters from those that settle at the bottom. This is a far bigger issue that the common man cannot control by themselves, the best they can do if they actually understand it is to hedge against it. Eventually the majority is going to have to do something about it and unfortunately we will be starting in a pretty poor and ignorant position.
Posts: 3,188
Threads: 216
Joined: Sep 2007
many of us thinking self sustaining food production a good start ....
|
