CRIMINAL penalties for non-permitted buildings!

[Bullwinkle]

case law:

recently an architect in L.A. (His own home) was arrested. His design included a non code approved false chimney that caught fire - the fireman responding lost his life when the unapproved addition collapsed underneath him

law of unintended consequences - in this case violating code will lead to prison term.

1 year: update http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/01/0...refighter/

[MiloliiSect]

Aloha all, My opinion from reading the bill and the current events surrounding the time of writing of this bill was not so much geared towards the personal homeowner but to prevent the level of negligence and greedy corruption conducted by many of the larger corporate land owners. Yes, the public is directly affected by loss of larges sums of pubic monies and future taxation's when large enterprises engage in illegal building codes. http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/sections...-sold.html

[csgray]

I lived in a house built by an amateur builder who did not know what he was doing. None of his mistakes were visible until we started remodeling and discovered really dangerous mistakes, it is a miracle the house did not have an electrical fire, or a fire from the really dangerous installation of the chimney and flue. This house was built in the 30s in a time of no code and no inspections.

I could see having the builder beware system Forester is talking about if there was a covenant that the house can not be sold, given away, inherited, or in any way passed on to an unsuspecting future owner. The builder's family would still be at risk, but we really can't do anything about children who make the mistake of choosing fools for parents. (That was sarcasm for anyone who can't tell!)

Carol

[Rob Tucker]

Carol is making a very valid point. Home building rarely if ever affects only the initial home builder. Codes originated from a need to protect the occupants (tenants or owners) and future occupants. It is a fact that many people will build as cheaply as possible if free to do so and unfortunately that means safety is often a casualty of the profit motive.

Interestingly a lot of people think the "building code" is telling them how to build their home... the codes actually are telling the the lowest standard of construction allowed by law.

[Wao nahele kane]

With regard to owner builder situations, IMO, building departments need to implement a simpler code for such scenarios where the factual minimal safe standards are met and not the "industry mandated standard". An owner builder need not meet the rigors of repetitive engineering that essentially causes a known building technique to be engineer checked millions and million of times for no purpose but to verify what was known 300 million homes ago. Thus an owner builder should need provide nothing more than a simple hand drawn plan in the most basic plan depth and arrangement and inspections should be optional for a owner builder. A different safety net needs to be implemented and would provide a new profession within the industry that is long over due. The owner builder guideline removals are for the simple fact that many safe homes exist today that do not currently meet to the "industry mandated standard" that were built say 5-10-20 etc. years ago and all of them need to be graded. Without that its essentially creating a false sense of integrity of a "permitted home" vs. other older "permitted homes" and non-permitted. They are all very different things in some cases and in others an owner built home may exceed the industry standard by several factors ( I know mine does as a former builder of 35 years). A national grading system should be adopted for all homes regardless of when built or under what legal circumstances. Sub standard graded homes could be assigned to any home regardless of when or how built and such homes would not necessarily be subject to condemnation. A national grading system is the only way to provide factual value and integrity in a home, who and under what legal status the home is built is useless presumptive boloney.
Those engaged in the occupation of building would still be subject to municipal inspections should the municipality elect to preform the function or it may be specialty contracted out to privately controlled inspection firms who would be held liable to a reasonable extent for their rating of a home.

- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.

[csgray]

That proposed "national grading system" would not be able to identify a home like the one we had that had multiple hidden defects. Studs that were anywhere from 8 to 36 inches on center could only be discovered if the grading system opened up the walls. Same thing for the wiring and plumbing that were absolute nightmares. I agree there is quite a bit of redundancy in the system, but letting any moron with a hammer and time build a house is a mistake, I know this from living in a house that was built by a laid off mill worker in the Depression who had no clue as to what he was doing. Every single thing we did on that house cost us twice what it should have, because we had to spend time and money fixing his mistakes, in addition to the originally planned remodeling. Abandoning codes and inspections leaves future owners at risk from hidden defects.

Carol

[Wao nahele kane]

BTW... A national grading system of homes if adopted could be implemented through the Real Property sale procedures. Therefore a home permitted/recorded or not would become subject to national rating inspection upon its first sale if it did not already have a recorded rating. Once rated, no further rating inspections would be required except in the event of a major addition, remodel or renovation. Common home sales inspections would still be applicable and advised but still optional as they are now, the national grading system would simplify the regular home sales inspectors job to a given degree by giving them a variable standard by which to confirm with regard to what level of inspection is necessary and to what extent the sales inspector should flag irregularities/conflicts in a previously rated home.

- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.

[Wao nahele kane]

Carol... a "national grading system" could find the problems you cited depending on what depth the inspector is paid to investigate. If an inspector is not able to inspect given features then a unknown grade is applied to the report and it becomes part of the final overall grade but still identifiable as an unknown on the grading sheet.

This means you would have been advised that the issues were an unknown at the time and the home value would have been reduced based on the national grade and area where purchased.

- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.

[Wao nahele kane]

If a home owner decides to build unpermitted and dos not call upon an approved inspection company to record/verify the building process then the home upon its first sale is then graded by only what's visible and or if desired paid additionally to verify what's under a given layer. This would also allow for a renovated home to be inspected and graded during a renovation when everything is visible.

- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.

[Wao nahele kane]

It has been said again and again that the process of permitting and inspections is to make a safer home. This may be the true intent but with the continual evolution of building codes people eventually have no idea what they are getting. Thus a national grading system will actually preform what cannot be guaranteed by current evolving regulatory practices.
Its time that the industry truly regulate itself as its clearly progressed beyond municipality resource and ability. This element in the industry is the missing link between buyer and product.

- Armed citizens provide security of a free State.