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Meat Animals
#11
kaialoha,

I don't subscribe to the notion that I am compassion-less because I eat meat. Many puna-webbers have been to my farm and see how loved each and every meat animal is. Smile

On an interesting side note, I personally know 5 former vegans (none related or even know each other). One I just met the day before yesterday. They were vegans while living on the mainland but started eating meat, dairy, fish, etc once they moved here.... And Hawaii is less than perfect for growing most veggies, there are many threads on punaweb about that if you are interested in reading up.

Dayna

http://www.FarmingAloha.com
www.E-Z-Caps.com
Dayna Robertson
At Home Hawaii
Real Estate Sales and Property Management
RS-85517
Dayna.JustListedInHawaii.com
Dayna.Robertson@gmail.com
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#12
Aloha Dayna,

I have NO DOUBT you love your animals! None what-so-ever! ~ BUT, that's right up to the point where your animals/pets go through the violence and the pain, suffering, and bewilderment of their master betraying them when you kill/slaughter them. Personally that is something I CANNOT and WILL NOT impose upon another creature!! I make no judgment nor do I respect you any less for your choices, but I will always speak up in defense of animals and the exploitation of them. Eating them IS exploitation. There is NO 'humane' way of 'killing' animals. NONE what-so-ever!

Diet is almost ALWAYS subject to the location and supply of the food stream. Hawai'i may not be the perfect location for fruit and vegetable production BUT it is by far and away the most likely to produce massive quantities and varieties PLENTY enough to have a diet that avoids eating meat. I've read more than I wish to admit on the subject.

I'm a retired Landscape Architect and have 4 degrees in associated subjects, including 3 others related to Health Sciences and in ALL my studies, bar none and aside from the 'compassion' issue, eating meat is VERY BAD for you. Having a diet high in 'meat' products has even been equated to damage WORSE than smoking cigarettes, thus my comments. I HOPE to meet you (AND others as well here on Punaweb) someday!! DON'T read this as an indictment, but rather as somewhat of a plea to consider the alternatives to meat ~ ~ ~ Ke Akua pu ~ ~ ~

MUCH Aloha

Kai

KaneHawai'i
Kaihekili
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#13

The understanding so many people today have of meat is based solely on reading about meat production industrial confinement animal feeding operations (CAFOs) and the health impacts of eating meat and poultry from such a system; and that impression is very misleading in terms of animals and animal products derived from a greener, cleaner environment.

This article is the the best discussion I've seen on the topic of meat animals:
"An Animal’s Place", by By Michael Pollan
The New York Times Magazine, November 10, 2002

with this statement being so true: "...how parochial and urban an ideology animals rights really is. It could thrive only in a world where people have lost contact with the natural world, where animals no longer pose a threat to us and human mastery of nature seems absolute."
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#14
a link

http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archiv...als-place/
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#15
If eating meat is so bad for you, how is it that the Inuit even survived back in the days when they ate 100% meat?
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#16
Aloha,

Those who consume meat are FAR MORE likely to suffer from any, OR MANY, of the following health issues, including: Diabetes, Heart Disease, propensity towards Stroke, Obesity, Physical Lethargy, Uric Acid Poisoning, Gout, limited Life Span/Early Demise, Colon Cancer, as well as a BUNCH of other 'cancer' related diseases, and the list grows bigger from there. This is no hippy-pie-in-the-sky silliness! These are REAL problems associated with consuming meat/meat products.

The 'Inuit' (a term used for SEVERAL 'Eskimo' tribes, not just one single group of people) generally have a shorter life span than other 'civilizations', and in almost all studies, that 'limited life span' is DIRECTLY related to diet (in this case, virtually 100% 'meat' and LOTS of fat consumption).

But the health issues are NOT the ONLY issues with eating meat.

From my perspective (on the VEGAN Path and I practice AHIMSA, a Hindi philosophy basically meaning to 'Do NO harm') 'killing' is just not an option. To clarify: I say I am on the 'VEGAN Path' because, IMHO, there is NO SUCH THING as a 100% TRUE VEGAN. There CAN'T be! It's IMPOSSIBLE! And here's why: NO person is capable of NOT killing something at some time or other, intentionally or unintentionally, whether it's stepping on a bug or slapping away a mosquito, killing a roach, flea, tick, centipede, etc. While I strive to NOT have anything to do with killing SENTIENT beings (ANY animal that has 'feelings', can sense pain and discomfort, or have 'awareness', ie, dogs, cats, cows, pigs, etc.), I GLADLY kill mosquitoes and dangerous/nuisance critters, BUT, when doing so I DO apologize to their souls. People think that's pretty whack-a-doodle, BUT, I did NOT create these critters, I am NOT their master or their owner and therefore have NO RIGHT to take their lives. But when I do, I make sure their life force is at ease with 'passing'. NO, Rod Serling is NOT in the room ~ Wink ~

Sentient beings are FULLY CAPABLE of emotion, love, and compassion. The evidence to support this notion is not always steeped in the emotional smattering from 'animal lovers', etc. but has a GIANT cache of empirical evidence to suggest as much. In the simplest of terms; If I raise a pig and it becomes my 'pet', personally I am INCAPABLE of destroying that 'pet' to satisfy my hunger/nutritional needs when I can simply reach down and grab a tomato, lettuce, papaya, mango, etc., which is FAR BETTER for me and does NOT include foisting pain, suffering, and terror on another being to satisfy my dietary requirements. I consider it to be UTTER BETRAYAL of that 'pet' (whom I consider part of my ohana). For me, the same goes for ANY sentient being. My personal philosophy (and it IS MY personal POV), is that NO animal, sentient OR otherwise, is my 'food'. It is NOT my right to take that creatures life, in any way shape or form. And so I choose NOT to.

When it comes right down to it, it is a choice of compassion OR NOT!!! I choose compassion. I will NEVER cause another creature pain, suffering, terror, or fear, if I am able to prevent it or put a stop to it. I am NOT 'PETA', so I don't go around terrorizing animal killers, BUT, I try to pass the word along, and HOPEFULLY without proselytizing, the nature of Compassion and AHIMSA ~ ~ ~

BUT, these issues related to health are not just my POV. It has been proven time and time again that consuming meat has a TREMENDOUS downside and MUCH of the Health Care costs burden in the World today are directly and inextricably associated to the myriad health issues caused by meat consumption.

SO, aside from the spiritual side of this issue, there is the practical and economic side of this issue as well ~ ~ ~

Forgive my less than eloquent diatribe but MAHALO for reading it none-the-less ~ ~ ~

~ ~ ~ Peace Upon You ~ ~ ~

~ ~ ~ ALOHA ~ ~ ~

~ ~ ~ NAMASKARAM ~ ~ ~





KaneHawai'i
Kaihekili
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#17
kaialoha,

I appreciate your sentiment but you have wandered away from the basis of Punaweb which is Puna and Hawaii related subjects.

So I must ask you to post your opinions on the health or lack of health regarding the eating of meat elsewhere.

Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator
Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator
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#18
Aloha Rob,

Mahalo for the comment. But, PLEASE, do NOT single me out for the comments I've posted.

Your opinion about whether or not I've 'wandered away' from the basis of Punaweb is just that, an 'opinion' and is subject to interpretation in any number of ways. Since you targeted MY posts, you obviously have your own opinion about the subject which APPARENTLY does not coincide with my own.

As such, in my opinion you have over-stepped your authority as 'Moderator' for this Topic ~ ~ ~

Please direct that comment to OTHERS who have shared THEIR position as well. My opinion is NOT the only one on this string.

If you feel I'm wrong, BY ALL MEANS provide a Statement of Allowable Criteria that meets YOUR standards.

Mahalo

Kai

KaneHawai'i
Kaihekili
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#19
Kai,

Rob can do or say whatever he wants. It's his forum.

Dayna

http://www.FarmingAloha.com
www.E-Z-Caps.com
Dayna Robertson
At Home Hawaii
Real Estate Sales and Property Management
RS-85517
Dayna.JustListedInHawaii.com
Dayna.Robertson@gmail.com
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#20
Kai, A few points:

1. The policy of the web site was stated in the registration document you signed.
2. I don't really have time to always track down who said what first, second or third... but
3. On this topic you are the one who changed it from a specific to a general topic.
4. I don't want you to feel picked on, it is not my intention.
5. It is my intention to prevent Punaweb from entering the territory of general rants on a WIDE range of subjects.

So unless you have some practical input on the subject of: "wondering if anyone raises their own meat animals, other then fish?" Please just leave it alone.

Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator
Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator
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