SPACE, Bellyacres problems

[lavalava]

Don't worry Kalakoa - the increasing gentrification of lower puna is bringing people with money and standards and these people are bringing their lawyers with them. Get back to me in 20 years and let's see if that old boy network is still intact.

[birchl]

Lavalava you talk about 'gentrification' as if it is a good thing. it is not!! You have the audacity to equate money with 'standards' of any sort, and you consistently insult the place you live in.

#10048;

[kalakoa]

people with money and standards and these people are bringing their lawyers

1. Lawyers are an important piece of the old-boy-network.

2. Gentrification will be subject to the same infrastructure limitations that already exist.

Example: HPP is something like 4500 lots, of which about 30% are currently occupied. The gentry will need to build more highways, stay home (retired/telecommute), or travel to Hilo with flying cars. In the past, they have fought new highways, nobody's forcing Telcom/Oceanic to make the internet 100% available, and the flying cars aren't really available ... so I don't think it's happening in my lifetime.

[fishenjim]

I Thought HPP was more like 8000 lots? I agree The good old boys network is not usually easily disbanded, They tend to close ranks and hold on to power at all cost till they end up in jail.

[kalakoa]

I Thought HPP was more like 8000 lots?

I'd have to check my sources, but the point is somewhat academic when you consider that HPP is just one of several very large subdivisions that all empty onto a 2-lane highway.

I think there's about another 4000 lots in Orchidland, and that doesn't count HB/HSRE, Ainaloa, Tiki Gardens... (let's just pretend that Nanavale and the Red Road subdivisions will get everything in Pahoa, so not add to the Hilo traffic load, hahaha).

Similar situation already exists in upper Puna with rush-hour congestion on 11 as people drive home to Volcano, Mountain View, Kurtistown, etc.

Pretty sure none of them are over one-third occupied.... (going even further off-topic now...)

My favorite part of the whole equation: zero civic planning means no room was left for widening any of the roads -- and any potential "through road" already has people living on it who don't want the additional traffic. Progress is going to require different thinking, because the "everyone drives their individual car to the designated commercial zone" paradigm is already not working. (No, the existing "public transit" is not a solution either, at least not in its current form.)

[kalakoa]

8,000+ lots; 3,000 with homes

Not even 40% then.

failure of the various subdivisions to come together in the early days for community planning

History suggests that it was already too late once the subdivisions were created -- County should have insisted on buffers so there would be room to widen the roads later -- not that the developers would have actually done this (they weren't held to any of their other legal obligations).

For a comparison, look at the plats around Volcano Village, and note the perfect grid of streets (some existing, some planned). Almost as if it was intended for an actual community, rather than a maximum number of tax lots.

[Guest]

Yes, our subdivision never planned for a nonprofit educational entertainment circus school that has now left its mission statement in the dust to be using our subdivision roads as a main boulevard and or thoroughfare to their property for their hosted events. For seven years our neighborhood has had to deal with early morning disruptions i.e. vendors in cars and light at 530am up and down our main-road and all of the late night hanging out and wild-ing on our subdivision's front lawn. All of this was done without any input from the neighbors or the entire subdivision for that matter. So bounce, bounce , bounce.

P.S.I am speaking for all of my neighbors who are too intimidated to speak out thereby leaving the impression that it is just a few people. If I had a chance to turn the clock back I would un-pave the red road and turn it back to a more natural scenic highway.

[fishenjim]

Ted, if the government projections are even close to right 80,000 plus people in puna by 2030. I cant imagine that there won't be more than 3,000 build outs in HPP in the next 50 years. IMO

[pahoated]

Hawaii Volcano Circus is the only recognized non-profit and it is classed as a Public Charity. Didn't know being a Public Charity was the key to "sustainability".

And for the shills now claiming Ellis knew nothing (Sargent Shultz "I know nothing"), here is the IRS record:

Name and address of principal officer

GRAHAM ELLIS

RR2 BOX 4524

96778

So, the principal officer knew nothing, hmmm.

"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"

[csgray]

I used to live right on the main road in Seaview not that long ago, and the Space market was going on at that time. In spite of being a very light sleeper, especially during the early morning hours, I never even knew the Market was happening for the first 8 weeks we lived there, so the vendor traffic can't be all that intense.

The objection to "all of the late night hanging out and wild-ing on our subdivision's front lawn" sounds like someone is pissed off they weren't invited to the party. Seaview had a lot of eccentricities when we lived there, I hope it still does, that was a big part of what made the subdivision so wonderful. I remember going to a potluck and some of the older, wealthier retirees who had just built homes there were complaining about the brightly colored houses in the front of the subdivision and how they wished they could impose rules to force people to paint their houses "more normal" colors. Everyone in the conversation just looked at them in amazement until someone asked where they thought they had built their house. They left the party shortly after that muttering about "those people."

Every post by Sativa seems like a personal dislike for a group of people and their lifestyle, masquerading as a selfless pursuit of land use violations. Seaview has county maintained roads, those roads are not private subdivision roads, and anyone can use them anytime they choose to, and "late night hanging out" is not a legitimate land use issue.

Carol