SPACE, Bellyacres problems

[Guest]

csgray quote:
"all of the late night hanging out and wild-ing on our subdivision's front lawn" sounds like someone is pissed off they weren't invited to the party."

Carol, that is so silly that it doesn't even deserve a response and yet I would like to say this. I know that it really makes it easy to accept and rationalize all of what has been done by making it a personal thing between us and Graham. Yet, don't we have a right to disagree with bad legislation without it being a personal thing? There is so much more to this story besides the ohia tree death or encroachment on the state land or growing a few more marijuana plants then your medical permit allows.

Just for your information, Carol, there were two things that were needed for SPACE market to continue operating in Seaview Subdivision. It had to do with HVC's amendments to their special use permit 1122 that they submitted that required a traffic analysis study and some kind of final assessment report. Neither one was done correctly. I really don't care how many unpermitted structures were on their land. I care about nonprofits writing legislation to benefit themselves.

A nonprofit is to be held to a higher standard than the ordinary citizen even in the back of lower Puna. Nonprofits are NOT allowed to involve themselves in direct legislation or grassroots lobbing let alone writing it and handing it to a freshman Senator to champion. We have two 501c3s, one to the left and one to the right of us, in Seaview estates who have hui-ed up with 5 other fairly new 501c3s to write and support direct legislation. In case you don't know this it is totally illegal and is one of the only things you can do to have automatic revocation. Not even a moratorium!

This is because nonprofits are given so much...we must make sure they are not using their nonprofit mailing list to push political legislation and political agendas with politicians and regulatory commissions. They can advocate for policy changes as long as it is not about specific legislation not to mention admittedly authoring it.

I only have 2 more post left so I have to get it all in and hopefully give you something to chew on.

P.S. Could you please give me some examples were I am being "personal".

[birchl]

I don't think so.
There was only one thing needed for space to continue - tolerance
The non-profits of America are held to what? Would those be the same standards the banks and money markets are held to? The only charity that exists is local. National charities, with their endless by laws and exclusions, mostly exist as tax write-offs for the wealthy. That is not to say that good is not done by some of those, but it tends to be in spite of the administrations not because of them.
To say its not personal is fine until you read these posts. They could not get more personal. Imho

#10048;

[missydog1]

quote:

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Originally posted by birchl

The non-profits of America are held to what? Would those be the same standards the banks and money markets are held to?

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Non-profits in Hawai'i are held to the standards enacted in the HRS. This is what the non-profit board agrees to when initiating the non-profit.

Donations to 501c3 orgs are tax-deductible while donations to 501c4 orgs are not. Most grant-making organizations Ð and this includes many types of funders Ð require that any orgs receiving grants have a 501c3 status. There are a few exceptions, but not many.

501c4 orgs can engage in political lobbying, without budgetary limits, as long as it directly pertains to their mission. 501c3 orgs can only spend a maximum of 20% (depending on the size of the org Ð sometimes itÕs only 5%) of their budget on lobbying activities, and before they engage in any lobbying, they have to file forms informing the IRS of their intent to lobby.

[csgray]

Sativa,
I have no dog in this fight. I do not have a personal relationship with anyone who has any affiliation with Hiccup circus, Belly Acres, or the Village Green society. I never even went to the SPACE market when I lived in Seaview, so I truly have no reason to defend anyone involved in all this.

You might want to ask yourself what it is about your actions, tactics, methods and written words on this issue that would lead a genuine outside observer to perceive you as making it personal. The fact that multiple people here have referred to it as a vendetta says a lot about how your actions are being perceived, and in my case how they are being perceived by someone who has no reason to support one side or another in this. In fact I am a big fan of transparent, open and above board actions on the part of community groups, NGOs, and nonprofits, not to mention government.

Anyone who wants to succeed at working to change public policy and work in the public arena needs to remember that the public pays attention to not only what is said, but how it is said. If one side comes across as gloating over the downfall of another side, they no longer are perceived as working for the common good, but as someone who is using the system to "get" other people.

Just some food for thought.

Carol

[missydog1]

quote:

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Anyone who wants to succeed at working to change public policy and work in the public arena needs to remember that the public pays attention to not only what is said, but how it is said. If one side comes across as gloating over the downfall of another side, they no longer are perceived as working for the common good, but as someone who is using the system to "get" other people.

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I don't know, I think this forum has a tendency to label strongly held beliefs as vendettas. I haven't kept track of the posts and would need to see an example of the gloating tone. It may be there, but I would need a quote or two.

I think it is perfectly acceptable to celebrate the defeat of a piece of legislation or the thwarting of a purpose that is seen to be unethical.

quote:

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they no longer are perceived as working for the common good, but as someone who is using the system to "get" other people.

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I would question that perception, as it is also a mindset. If the person clearly enjoys "getting" other people all the time, OK, but the system is there to be used to oppose what seems wrong to any one of us.

Maybe it is personal (whatever that really means), but it is typical of this forum for people to call attention to the accusations of a small minority of the same people who say the same things because they DO have a dog in the fight in the form of a strongly held support of one side.

When you discount the perceptions of the people who are biased, I don't see a huge outcry here.

It's very hard to come to a conclusion here (on this forum), with so much emotion and perception and so little attention paid to facts, quotes, verified information.

[Guest]

Kathy H,

I could not have said it better myself and I am using my last post to tell you so. I really appreciate your mind in this matter.

Mahalo,
Sativa

[missydog1]

Thank you, Sativa.

When you say your last post -- not sure you realize the 5 post rule is an average, not per day. Click on your name, and your average shows as .59 posts per day, not anywhere near the post limit.

[Guest]

Thank you for that information. I thought it was 5 posts a day. I'll be back on soon!

[pahoated]

quote:

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Originally posted by birchl
The non-profits of America are held to what?

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The only question that made any sense. The IRS started requiring a card be sent in every year to remain tax exempt about 3 years ago. The number of non-profits from Puna that remained legitimate 501© plummeted. There is no enforcement to validate but the IRS pays snitches a good amount if tax fraud is being committed. I am just collecting the names of people that are still claiming 501© status around here locally, then looking up their status to find out if they are inactive or active. Just a list, so far. One on the list was Pele Defense Fund. Funny about that one, kind of the same situation, the "founders" squeal like stuck pigs but still defiant against the possibility of IRS investigation, then very quietly, it disappears. Yes, very hahaha funny.

"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"

[Guest]

pahoated quote:

"There is no enforcement to validate but the IRS pays snitches a good amount if tax fraud is being committed."


Well, I guess its pay day for somebody. They can take us out to lunch if they get a big check. []