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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
On a parallel most all the large Ohia was logged out of Puna many years ago by a company called Hawaii Planing Mill (HPM). They were sold to mainland railroads for railroad ties. Thousands of those Ohia railroad ties rot in the to this date out in the Mojave Desert. Seems the wood was too hard to drive a spike into. So all that timber was wasted.
Yes, many,many years ago. say, in the mid 1800's. Of course this was all done under the "Kingdom of Hawaii" regime. Yes, the raping of the land goes way back to the Native Hawaiian period. That does not make it OK to illegally harvest our protected natural resources that the Hawaiians tended to overlook, but we have now decided to protect.
Also, check your history. The golden spike driven into the last tie in Utah connecting the intercontinental railroad was an Ohia tie from Pahoa. You are mistaking the eucalyptus trees that did not work as ties.
This historical event in no way justifys the illegal harvesting of our protected Ohias on State Conservation land. Laws are on the books to prevent this and they must be followed and violators must be brought to justice.
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Well,at least they "honored" Hawaii by making it part of the transcontinental railway. Believe me, if the "big four"(Huntington, Stanford, Hopkins and Crocker) would have built the railway over the pond if they could. They were some of the greediest "new corporates" I've ever read about by taking alternate square mile plots along the route, took massive amounts of coal from Wyoming, and planted gum trees (eucalyptus, fast growing invasive, now considered "native") for fuel for the locomotives. The mess goes on from them, and the passengers the trains had going West.
I still have difficulty understanding the immense greed some people have ( and even using the Lords name in vain to get it) in creating tax shelters, loopholes, skirting the law in a way that it effects a broad spectrum of the land and the people within for their own personal wealth. All anyone really needs is enough to basically cover the costs of life in raising a family in feeding, transportation, clothes on your back, and a roof over your head. There is way too many that cannot even afford that.
Are you a human being, or a human doing?
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quote:
from kjlpahoa:
Also, check your history. The golden spike driven into the last tie in Utah connecting the intercontinental railroad was an Ohia tie from Pahoa. You are mistaking the eucalyptus trees that did not work as ties.
From Pahoa Yesterday by Hiro Sato (I have an autographed copy of Sato's book.)
"The railroad ties processed at the Pahoa Lumber Mill (1907-1918) were transported on rail flat cars to Hilo wharf and then transshipped on steamships to the mainland USA."
A contract for 90 million board feet of Ohia railroad ties was made in 1907 with the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railroad. (2,800,000 ties.)
That famous golden spike in Utah was in 1869, about forty years before the contract was signed.
From Wikipedia:
"A special tie of polished California laurel was chosen to complete the line where the spike would be driven."
Assume the best and ask questions.
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Hmmm. Forgot about that in Cal history in grade school. But the big four still would have built the railroad over the pond if they could for the land on the other side. Surprised they didn't try to buy their way into the old coast railroad.
Are you a human being, or a human doing?
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Just for discussion purposes I find a distinction in harvesting a small number of Ohia and actually using them (which happens often in Puna) compared to a commercial operation taking a couple million trees and selling them for profit to a railroad.
From what you are posting above you seem to appreciate this distinction too.
Puna has always been one of the more overly exploited areas of the state and still is... in the same manner that the Hawaiians themselves are still exploited by organized crime under the guise of The Department of Hawaiian Homelands. I see the same irony in the stated purpose versus the actual performance of the Department of Lands and Natural Resources.
So the wailing about a few trees being used for a local community performance center rings a bit hollow to me considering the overlaying level of graft and corruption here in Hawaii.
Assume the best and ask questions.
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I live in the ohia forest!! What are you lot talking about? We are systematically distroying it one acre at a time all the way from the coast line of HPP, up orchid land, ainaloa, hawaiian acres, fern acres, all the way up the mountain, aloha estates, glenwood, fern forest etc. etc. since most of you probably live in one if these places I cannot believe the hypocrisy of censuring their use here ?
#10048;
#10048;
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Rob..." rings a bit hollow to me considering the overlaying level of graft and corruption here in Hawaii." that's a mouth full
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quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
the native Hawaiians cut down ohia," That isn't the point, the native Hawaiians didn't harvest more than what they needed, and here is the point most haole miss, they did it with respect.
Sometimes the forests were treated with respect, and other times as with the sandalwood trade the trees were cut almost to the point of extinction:
For a brief moment in history, these Islands were known as Tahn Heung Sahn, the Sandalwood Mountains. Forests ran from mountain to sea, populated with four native sandalwood species, including one endemic to Haleakala. Medeiros says the tree’s fleshy seeds were likely spread by large, flightless birds—the marvelous moa nalo.
The Hawaiian sandalwood trade was brief but potent. King Kamehameha bought the brig Columbia for two shiploads of sandalwood in 1817. Nine years later, the Hawaiian kingdom enacted its first written law—a sandalwood tax. To pay off increasing foreign debts, Hawaiian royals required commoners to cut and carry trees to waiting boats. Harvesters were nicknamed “kua leho” (callous back); logs often arrived stained with blood. By 1840, the sandalwood supply was exhausted.
http://www.mauimagazine.net/Maui-Magazin...andalwood/
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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the disgusting hypocrisy to claim cutting down ohia logs from state land for personal, private gain is somehow "sustainable living"
It's somehow "okay" when the robber barons overthrow the native government and sell ohia for railroad ties ... then magically "not okay" after the Territory is annexed by the US as a State. Or maybe it was never "okay", but history is too long ago and nobody can do anything about it now?
Clearly, geothermal is "okay" because the State grants a lease...?
It's getting really difficult to keep score...
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@ kalakoa:
Just to clarify some points of history, Hawaii was annexed in 1898 and given territorial status. Statehood came in 1959 after a vote of 94.3% in favor in an open election. The options in that election were remaining a territory or becoming a state. Independence was not on the ballot. Turnout was 90% of eligible voters.
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