Infrastructure improvements

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

I don't know that it would be legal to set up a toll booth & fee for Beach Road if it was the only way in and out of lower Puna. It's almost the opposite of a gated community, but worse. You would force residents to pay to get out of their own community. Even if it was legal, could you really expect people to stop in a line (after bumping 4 miles down a bulldozed road, barely two lanes wide) and wait to pay for that? On their way to work? It would be a long enough commute as it is, there's no reason to make it any worse.

[Seeb]

There are no toll roads in the state, that's just a silly tangent. Beach road is the logical choice But the county / state is going to have to take responsibility for diverting a major hiway down a private driveway ( that's the reason they give for not allowing any public funds to be used on the HPP roads)

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

There were no roundabouts in the state either, but the one planned in Pahoa is going to be more of a silly circle rather than a silly tangent.

[Wao nahele kane]

The beach road is still a public legal right of way as it crosses through both the shores and Hpp subdivisions. At no time was that right of way relinquished to either of the subdivisions. It is only a 10' wide right of way in most areas but with the common rules of eminent domain suspended that 10' wide status can become wider very quickly.

All of this is just speculation on our behalf on what the County mights choose to do but in fact they could also choose to run the already existing right of way all the way through to the eastern side of Hilo for the Beach road and the already existing Railroad avenue right of way all the way to its present existence in Hilo from its spotted and abandoned existence from 132. None of those right of ways have been relinquished. Abandonment and relinquishment are two different things.

[Wao nahele kane]

As per the silly notion of toll booths etc. All of the public roads in Hawaii are tax payer paid, even 130. South Puna residents have been paying taxes for years here and this silly notion of a toll both for roads that should have been put in years ago is pure hogwash. Tax money is tax money no matter when and why its used to facilitate necessary roads.

[csgray]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wao nahele kane

The beach road is still a public legal right of way as it crosses through both the shores and Hpp subdivisions. At no time was that right of way relinquished to either of the subdivisions. It is only a 10' wide right of way in most areas but with the common rules of eminent domain suspended that 10' wide status can become wider very quickly.

All of this is just speculation on our behalf on what the County mights choose to do but in fact they could also choose to run the already existing right of way all the way through to the eastern side of Hilo for the Beach road and the already existing Railroad avenue right of way all the way to its present existence in Hilo from its spotted and abandoned existence from 132. None of those right of ways have been relinquished. Abandonment and relinquishment are two different things.

---

Do you have a source you can cite for saying Railroad's right of way still exists? My understanding is that it was relinquished years ago, and that, in part because it was a railroad easement it falls under different rules than public roadways, and that the Shipman family made sure to get it relinquished where it crosses their land, because they do not want a road through their AG lands.

Carol

Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

I don't agree with the idea of a toll booth, but there are many taxpayer funded roads that have toll booths, with virtually a single access point. Think Golden Gate Bridge to Marin County.
A toll booth is not unprecedented in this type of situation, but I don't believe it's a good idea to create another hardship for lower Puna residents should a Beach Road access route become necessary.

[Carey]

Some of the road bed & easement for Old Govt Beach is no longer, due to subsidence in some areas and erosion in others (any one who has visited the beach road park in HPP knows the areas of missing pavement and undercut road bed)

If anyone were truly thinking that the county/state could have maintained this without abjectly impacting some landowners, esp those with land in Wa`awa`a, HPBSRE, HPP.... some small land owners would have had to give up a majority of their land, along with the larger landowners giving up minor portions...

This is also a problem with establishing an alternate route along Railroad, or any other route...smaller landowners may have their total land owning taken for the roadway....

I have been to many meetings were alternate routes are discussed, and most people are for a route that does not effect THEIR property, and totally against a route that may effect their property....

I have no idea how you can put an alternate route in that does not adversely effect some people, while fulfilling the ideas of other people.... obviously some compromise must happen, and EVERYONE should shoulder some of the responsibility and cost.... which is where many here cringe...

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

To bring Beach Road to the state of a passable two lane road is a major undertaking. Yes, the "road" is there, but if you were to take a hike or a bike ride down the stretch from HPP to Hawaiian Beaches one morning you would see how much work will be required. To make it passable will require much more than a few passes with a D-9 and some loads of cinder.

As Carey pointed out, widening the road to two lanes will also impact land owners. It can't be avoided.

[peteadams]

"the already existing Railroad avenue right of way all the way to its present existence in Hilo"

This has been commented on many times. The former easement through the Shipman lands north of HPP was extinguished (whatever the legal term is) when the railroad itself was abandoned.