Posts: 3,035
Threads: 201
Joined: Aug 2006
At the time of first contact with Europeans in Hawaii, the "western" culture did not have any of those things either. At a time when Europeans were scared to sail beyond the sight of land for fear of falling of the edge of the earth, the Polynesians were sailing all over the Pacific using very sophisticated navigation techniques. The land use and irrigation systems were also quite sophisticated. Calling a culture "simple" because they had not invented 20th century technologies in the 18th century is absurd.
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
Posts: 1,839
Threads: 48
Joined: May 2007
OS, It sounds as though you are an atheist. Fine, Your choice. I am Agnostic, I KNOW that I do not KNOW. MY bet is that you do not KNOW, either.
Posts: 907
Threads: 12
Joined: Apr 2012
Oneself -
The Hawaiians were taking care of business in a sustainable way long before the west even realized what they were doing wasn't sustainable, much less doing anything about it.
We don't control nature. Nature is not based on science. Science is an explanation of nature.
All your statements about belief systems being absurd are so ironic - those are actually your beliefs.
Here's my belief - you picked the wrong place to live.
Here's my hope - you stick around long enough to change.
Posts: 119
Threads: 6
Joined: Dec 2013
Beside a minor argument that I'd have with you on "native" sustainability, I like the way you're thinking here bluesboy.
I couldn't agree with more in this case.
Posts: 68
Threads: 1
Joined: Mar 2014
Oh please if you learned how to live with nature then live in Yurts covered in LFA's and do not ask for government assistance. Go ask your kings of old and see how well you fare. Enough of this nonsense
This is about just how stupid it is to worship molten rock, because that's exactly what it is molten rock pouring out of a hole in the ground and people trying to rationalize it as a maiden who has taken over the lava spewing hole in the ground. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?
There are also people who worship planes that fly over remote and isolated islands diverted due to a storm off the natural flight path, this day and age that happens and they think those 747 or 777 jumbo jet aircraft are gods watching over them and that they where foretold as their witch doctor told them it would be. Pele falls under the same category.
As far as "western" culture goes, you "eastern or polynesian: culture did some pretty gruesome attrocities for a millenia unchecked until a stronger civilization crushed you just as you did other lesser tribes so enough with all the culture wars because it gets old real fast.
You are part of a new world where those old ways are pbsolete and borderline stupid/reckless at times. Time to grow up move on and adapt or perish, the decision is yours
'Your whole idea about yourself is borrowed-- borrowed from those who have no idea of who they are themselves.'
'Your whole idea about yourself is borrowed-- borrowed from those who have no idea of who they are themselves.'
Posts: 907
Threads: 12
Joined: Apr 2012
I don't know much about Pele, i'm not Hawaiian, or even born here. That being said, I think I do understand it, and appreciate it to some extent. I don't think it's about worshiping molten rock. It's the acknowledgement that molten rock is the beginning step towards that land. And the land is what allows us to live. It allows us to breathe. It allows us to grow. It affords us safety and shelter. It enlivens the senses. It is everything, and it was born of molten lava.
Some of these opinions about the native culture here reminds me how people must have reacted to the native americans during their interaction with them the last few hundred years. I thought it was really sad how that all went down, and didn't know how those people could have acted that way. But now I am seeing it right before my eyes with you folks bad mouthing Pele. It made me feel bad for being an american, and you folks are making me feel bad for being in Hawaii. I know where I stand though.
If you know so much, then build a canoe and go settle another island. I'm proud of the stance of no diversion.
Wow, you must not know your time lines.
Cool thing about history is its already been written. Compare advancements here to western anytime in the last 100 years, and its 2 totally different worlds. Please do not tell me its advanced or sophisticated here,I honestly cant keep laughing out loud so much I am dirtying my laptop screen. People were still attaching electric lines to coconut trees in Puna 20 years ago. You want to call the infrastructure here sophisticated ? You must be pulling my leg.
Also, don't sit here and revel in the beautiful simplicity of Puna, and then try to turn around and make an argument that it is advanced. Cake or eat it, not both.
Its simple here. SIMPLE. and that's ok in many ways it is why I moved here. The times where it sucks, is when a lava flow is coming towards peoples homes and lives, and some people cant think far enough ahead to do anything about it, because they are blaming a magical deity.
Might as well blame Santa Claus for not bringing you the toy you wanted.
Im going to give you a news flash. ATTENTION PLEASE. No one is going to save you. This life is 100% your responsibility. It is also a limited time offer. You either do something or you don't, but please, please, please, do not blame magical creatures or try to tell me how advanced and sophisticated Puna is. I want to be able to take these conversations at least somewhat serious.
quote:
Originally posted by DanielP
OS, It sounds as though you are an atheist. Fine, Your choice. I am Agnostic, I KNOW that I do not KNOW. MY bet is that you do not KNOW, either.
Actually this is true and false, based on Quantum Physics we know that all possibilities are possible regardless of how improbable. In other words, we do not know anything at all, because everything has the possibility of being true.
So in order to differentiate what I can say I know and do not know, I have to go with probabilities.
The probability of a magical conscious volcano deity is so astronomically low, its not even a consideration.
It doesn't make me anything but a realist.
Posts: 2,244
Threads: 396
Joined: Nov 2011
Incredibly insulting, protoss and oneself. [  !] SMH at the bloody ignorance of some malihini. Pompous asses!
From a Hawaiian who attended the "best school west of the Rockies", with a 4.0 GPA.
Mahalo to those of you who at least show respect towards our culture.
JMO.
There is no disrespect at all. It is what it is. Has nothing to do with whether or not YOU went to school with good grades.
Take a look in the mirror and just accept what it is. Its NOT disrespectful, its just true. Hawaii has horrible school systems. Many people are under educated. On the big island, aside a few spots in Kona, almost everything is behind the times technologically. Its not an insult, it is what it is. You can deny it, or think its insulting or you can recognize it and consider change or not.
If you find what I say to be disrespectful, you have never taken a look around.
|
