L.A. Times> TMT breaks ground

[oink]

I'm not in my 80s.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[TomK]

HOTPE - yes, it always surprises people how big the Andromeda galaxy is, it's huge! Thanks for link to the picture, that was cool!

Now, remember I wrote this a few days ago?

"When it comes to observatory jobs and employment, I urge caution and skepticism when reading the opinions of others who have little knowledge or experience of how the observatories work or how they recruit."

Now it seems I have to correct further misinformation from Pahoated. I'm sort of running out of patience here, but here goes:

"The ESO in Atacama has started construction and is projected to be operational in 2 years."

ESO (European Southern Observatory) has been in operation for decades. It was created in 1962. It operates a number of observatories, one of which will be the E-ELT which has just started construction and is planned to be in operation in the mid-2020s, not in two years time.

http://www.eso.org/public/teles-instr/e-elt/e-elt_rev/

"Those job ads are taking resumes for positions that won't exist until 7 years from now."

Untrue. The jobs that are being advertised are currently open. They are not taking resumes for positions that will only open up in seven years time. That would be ridiculous. Those positions are, however, starting in Pasadena with relocation to Hilo later as the TMT is developed on the island. The current TMT office is in Pasadena, not Hilo. Remember, they have only just been given permission to start construction.

"TMT is a risky design, very complex, with so many mirrors, probably each in its own gimbal."

No gimbals, actuators, a technology that has already been shown to work at UKIRT, the Kecks and elsewhere. And is the same technology that'll be used by the E-ELT, which has even more mirror segments than the TMT.

"We don't use VCR's or tube TV's anymore (yeah, exception, some people in their 80's still do) and the same advances in electronics and adaptive optics applies to observatories. At the end of their life, so do observatories, but instead of going to e-waste, they are abandoned."

I don't even know where to start with this one, it doesn't even make sense, but people thought that 4-metre class telescopes would mean the death of the 2-metre telescopes. They were wrong. People then thought the 8-meter class telescopes would mean the death of the 4-metre telescopes. Again, they were wrong. And active telescopes upgrade continuously and move into areas where they can perform tasks other larger telescopes can't.

"ESO uses only 5 mirrors"

Utter nonsense. The E-ELT, assuming that's what's meant, will use nearly double the number of mirrors the TMT plans to use, 798 vs. 492.

http://www.tmt.org/sites/default/files/S..._Rel01.pdf

http://www.eso.org/public/usa/teles-instr/e-elt/

Edited: corrected some typos.

[punafish]

Thank you Tom.

[TomK]

No problem, punafish, but have to admit the nonsense one or two people post here about astronomy and the observatories has become very frustrating over time. Maybe if they made it clear they are posting opinions rather than trying to make it look as though they are posting facts I'd be a little less annoyed.

[geochem]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TomK

... but have to admit the nonsense one or two people post here about astronomy and the observatories has become very frustrating over time. Maybe if they made it clear they are posting opinions rather than trying to make it look as though they are posting facts I'd be a little less annoyed.

---

Ain't the Internet wonderful? Everyone gets to be an expert, or at least sound like one...

[Guest]

I'm really a dog. I do this when the people are away. Ever try to type with a wet nose?

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You can't fix Samsara.

[kalakoa]

this is a very transient population and the local economy can't depend on transients.

Ironic, then, that so many have to leave the island to find work.

[PunaMauka2]

"Maybe if they made it clear they are posting opinions rather than trying to make it look as though they are posting facts I'd be a little less annoyed."

Pahoated may be the most chronic offender on PW in this regard.

...although actually a rather common habit, it seems. one of the top causes of unnecessary bickering: overstating and phrasing opinion as fact, putting oneself in the unnecessary position of having to uncompromisingly defend said opinion down to the fine details in order to maintain the perception of credibility. - repeat.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

the big difference between E-ELT Atacama and TMT Hawaii island is one has no local population or jobs or protesters associated with it and the other does.

Have you ever seen the Atacama desert? It has no local human population, hence nobody protesting about local jobs. I can't speak for the snakes and scorpions though.

[Tink]

No jobs?? What about the structure that will enclose the telescope and the surrounding area? There must be a stipulation if a mainland contractor gets awarded the building project to hire locally and pay prevailing wage. Of course it's more than likely union protected, but the hall can't have that many members out of work and would be nice for the unions to open up apprenticeships with this project.

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