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From pbmaise on another thread:
>> There are hundreds of miles of highway built in Florida alone on elevated road beds. Why is a few miles in Hawaii an impossible task?
>> An elevated road bed, say 20 feet above grade, could have gentle curves and have occasionally concrete bridges. I recommend high temperature concrete for the columns.
>> The gentle curves would direct any floods onto less valuable ag land.
>> A feat of engineering to adapt to tremendous forces so man can live safely, at least temporarily, in areas where nature used to rule is interesting.
>> Each step taken or not taken along the way represents a philosophy of man relative to an era. IE There used to be a philosophy to dam all rivers possible for hydroelectric power even for small amounts of electricity.
>> I do not accept that the right era to be in is to do nothing. Otherwise, man should never put two stones upon each other. Why build new skyscrapers in NYC if the oceans are rising?
pbmaise I agree this is interesting, so a new thread for ideas, and maybe legal or cultural insights, on infrastructure and buildings intended to be lava survivable.
JL
JL
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Caveat;
- Thinking about lava sustainability with respect to typical Kilauea pahoehoe type flows at a distance from a vent. Not big aa flows.
Goals;
- Might be to produce "hard" actual survivable in place structures or "semi-hard" structures that could be modified as needed when lava approaches - assume weeks of warning
Starter engineering ideas;
- Build things on concrete bases/columns
- Possibly detachable/expandable at top so that as lava envelops the base, the column can expand vertically
- Utility lines might need to be built with extra line and a tensioner so that top of a pole can be raised vertically without rewiring
- Build structures with mechanical support like jack points on the underside of cars so that as lava approaches, columns can be detached, the structure can be lifted and taller columns locked into place
- Possibly have modules that will mechanically expand upwards as they are heated by lava. Could be permanently in place or deployed as lava approaches.
- Roads (or buildings large enough that they could act as dams) need to be able to pass lava underneath.
- Allow some portions to be fixed/act as dams; intervening portions form channels to point the lava in a given direction as it passes under. Rebuild/repeat for subsequent flows (now we can have a good time talking about whether this is acceptable diversion or lava management if you will)
- Water/sewers
- Bury them very deep underground? How deep do you have to put a water line to keep it from boiling?
- A grid that parts of can be shut off, while other parts keep flowing?
- Build light/modular/removable
- Good for homes, not so much for roads, power, water
JL
JL
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why maybe you can apply all that feat of engineering concepts to build and maintain dams that would divert the flow near source.
jdo
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maybe you can apply all that feat of engineering concepts to build and maintain dams that would divert the flow near source.
[/quote]How would the residents of Puna pay for these structures/modifications?
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
Ono - So Fast - So Tasty!
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apply all that feat of engineering concepts to build and maintain dams
Well, first you'd have to apply a "feat of political concepts" to modify the building code...
How would the residents of Puna pay for these
How will the residents of Puna pay for reconstruction using currently-approved standards?
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How would the residents of Puna pay for these..
With their EBT cards.
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That's sadly funny dakine!
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I was speaking of construction of highways that could survive lava flows with no harm.
Once lava encountered the gentle curve of the elevated roadway, it would be diverted to a causeway built using cement piers.
Alternate if the County has such a bug about defending thousands of homes in favor of "nobody" it could be a causeway the whole way.
The causeways in Southern Florida Keys were not built using the money of a few people living in Key West. Instead they were built by people with vision and determination. It is true Key West in turn became a tourist mecca as a result when they could simply jump in a car and drive there.
Certainly some people back when Key West was isolated highly objected. Becoming less-isolated was forced upon them. Here the situation is reversed. Becoming more isolated is forced upon everyone and some think that is a good thing too.
This isn't the diversion thread so back to topic.
Post and pier for homes is the obvious way to go. Several homes in Kapoho are already lava ready since they were built on cement piers. I financed one of them.
Bob2 is the name I gave to a different home in Kapoho that is also lava ready. I own Bob1. Bobs are works of art and engineering by someone named Bob. Bob2 is also known as the Great Wall of Kapoho. A large amount of fill was brought in to elevate the home above local grade and retained with lava rock walls.
The problem with Bob constructions is adjusting after a lava flow is not as easy as pouring higher cement posts.
Cement is not the only building material that need be used. Many metals and alloys melt at higher temperatures than lava.
The underside of the building should have a simple heat shield of galvanized metal if the beams above are wooden.
About how much? Simple cement piers can be fabricated and brought to site and erected with a crane.
Cost over conventional post and pier... perhaps $4-$7k for a typical home.
Cost over slab one grade, perhaps about $10-25k.
Retrofit prices higher.
Former Puna Beach Resident
Now sailing in SE Asia
HOT BuOYS Sailing
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if the County has such a bug about defending thousands of homes in favor of "nobody"
County created the problem by insisting that those homes be permitted.
In theory, this also means that the "value proposition" created by taxing those legal homes should generate enough revenue to protect them from disaster.
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The County has no choice, since Puna is part of Hawaii County and it's the law. Without permits, some people would build firetraps that are a danger to themselves and others, like that guy in Seaview.
Savvy libertarians favor Somalis for its expansive approach to "open carry" and its utter lack of regulation. No permits required to build there.
As for building lava safe, I hate to state the obvious but to be lava safe it is best not to build on a volcano. Few feats of human engineering can compete with the power of a volcano that's got its mojo back.
