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Interesting video from earlier today, testimony from Harry Kim.
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2015/0...-drilling/
I thought his testimony was quite clear, and I thought he made a very good distinction: whether or not you are in favor of geothermal, that has no bearing on whether nighttime drilling is appropriate or not.
I will say that I am pro-geothermal in the general sense, and that I firmly believe that geothermal is a great resource to use in Puna (particularly when compared to importing fossil fuels). But that being said, I am troubled by some of the actions (and attitude) by PGV and Ormat in this specific situation. I do wonder whether much of the anti-geothermal folks in Puna are that way simply because PGV and Ormat have acted the way they have.
Leilani Estates, 2011 to Present
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Thanks for sharing opihikao - nice piece of journalism summarizing the situation.
Thanks Justin for link to today's testimony from Harry Kim. The full video of testimony and the decision will hopefully be up soon.
Here is complete video of County Council passing Bill 292 (26 min).
Geothermal drilling bill 11-09-12: http://youtu.be/YXEno4YoBPk
Given how Yagong argues against the amendment specific for PGV, the intent appears clear IMHO.
PGV has vested rights to develop up to 60MW and 30 wells under the Mining Permit R-2 1981 from DLNR. However, how those wells are developed, including allowable noise, or hours of operation, is not explicitly protected in the permit, but is subject to county, state, and federal laws at the time a drilling permit is issued by DLNR for each well.
(JMO of course - there may be additional legal or political context that changes the above. Find out soon)
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Geothermal Night Time Drilling County Council Feb 4 2015 (1h35m)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0LVtS1hGD8
RES 58-15: Requests Puna Geothermal Venture, located in Pohoiki, to comply with the 2012 ordinance
Withdrawn by Ilagan (15m20s)
Ilagan: "I just want to keep moving forward and from my understanding from what Mike [PGV] just told me, I feel like even if we pass this reso he already gave me an answer. So to move things forward I am going to withdraw this and if we can read resolution 59-15 and then we address executive session."
RES 59-15: Asking Corporation Counsel to step in to re-examine the issue
Motion Fails (4-5)
Appears new legislation, possibly developed through mediation with all parties, is being considered based in part on recommendations made in executive session from Corporation Counsel.
Planning Department has had meetings with PGV and Corporation Counsel to ensure Best Available Control Technologies are being deployed for noise and light mitigation. PGV's voluntary change from starting drilling on Jan 29th to Feb 5th was to provide more time to make sure concerns were addressed to Planning Directors' satisfaction.
To quote/paraphrase:
Wille: None of us are saying lets pull back and not do anything. Everyone of us are [saying] something has to be done.
Eoff: This particular resolution [59-15] may not be able to accomplish what the community needs anyways and the manner it's being asked by Corporation Counsel may not be right process.
Poindexter: It is just a recommendation for someone to do something. I'm not going to vote on this just for someone to feel good.
David: Executive session clarified legal issues, but came out with wanting to do something for community.
Chair Kanuha: I think the best way is to find a best resolution that we all could agree on and the community could agree on. I will not be able to support it as it is.
Chung: I believe the vested rights don't apply here, there is nothing in the either the geothermal resource permit, the drilling permit, the noise permit that talks about 24h drilling. I am going to back up Mr Ilagan on this 100%. We have to try and at least uphold the validity of out laws.
Onishi: I was there, through executive session, and if two council members had listened to Mr Ikeda, if you look at minutes of the transcripts Mrs Ford and Mr Yagong says PGV is vested, they don't have to follow it. We should have at that time had the amendment to say in black and white they are exempt. We had the understanding. It was clearly stated and all council members agreed.
Paleka: The hard thing for me is I support geothermal. But the law is the law. It is clear.
EDIT: quotes, typos
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Harry Kim makes a great point in his testimony. He seems to be full or integrity and speaks from the heart and intelligence. No wonder he didn't get reelected!
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quote:
Originally posted by pander75
Harry Kim makes a great point in his testimony. He seems to be full or integrity and speaks from the heart and intelligence. No wonder he didn't get reelected!
Too bad he didn't make these statements while CD Director, nor while he was Mayor, as he approved the PGV expansion.
Too little too late, in a political environment of which is ego driven.
JMO.
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Drilling MUST be nonstop for the safety and welfare of community.
This is not a water well.
It requires high pressure injection "mud" during drilling to prevent what happened before.
Mud lubricates and pressurizes downward so upward pressures do not cause Red Addair to come try and recap a blowout.
You cannot simply start stop this process and have a cup of coffee.
There is a long check list to follow, and careful monitoring required.
Would you want a nuclear power plant to be stopped started every day?
PS. Gypsy
Bob built 2 homes far from PGV before building the next one closer. They are works of art.
I own one in Puna Beach, and the other is in Kapoho.
Bob P. is the yet still under recognized Frank Lloyd Wright of Puna. Wright's homes were not recognized for what they were right away and just considered eclectic.
Former Puna Beach Resident
Now sailing in SE Asia
HOT BuOYS Sailing
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quote:
Originally posted by ironyak
Geothermal Night Time Drilling County Council Feb 4 2015 (1h35m)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0LVtS1hGD8
RES 58-15: Requests Puna Geothermal Venture, located in Pohoiki, to comply with the 2012 ordinance
Withdrawn by Ilagan (15m20s)
Ilagan: "I just want to keep moving forward and from my understanding from what Mike [PGV] just told me, I feel like even if we pass this reso he already gave me an answer. So to move things forward I am going to withdraw this and if we can read resolution 59-15 and then we address executive session."
RES 59-15: Asking Corporation Counsel to step in to re-examine the issue
Motion Fails (4-5)
Appears new legislation, possibly developed through mediation with all parties, is being considered based in part on recommendations made in executive session from Corporation Counsel.
Planning Department has had meetings with PGV and Corporation Counsel to ensure Best Available Control Technologies are being deployed for noise and light mitigation. PGV's voluntary change from starting drilling on Jan 29th to Feb 5th was to provide more time to make sure concerns were addressed to Planning Directors' satisfaction.
To quote/paraphrase:
Wille: None of us are saying lets pull back and not do anything. Everyone of us are something has to be done.
Eoff: This particular resolution [59-15] may not be able to accomplish what the community needs anyways and the manner it's being asked by Corporation Counsel may not be right process.
Poindexter: It is just a recommendation for someone to do something. I'm not going to vote on this just for someone to feel good.
David: Executive session clarified legal issues, but came out with wanting to do something for community.
Chair Kanuha: I think the best way is to find a best resolution that we all could agree on and the community could agree on. I will not be able to support it as it is.
Chung: I believe the vested rights don't apply here, there is nothing in the either the geothermal resouce permit, the drilling permit, the noise permit that talks about 24h drilling. I am going to back up Mr Ilagan on this 100%. We have to try and at least uphold the validity of out laws.
Onishi: I was there, through executive session, and if two council members had listened to Mr Akeda, if you look at minutes of the transcripts Mrs Ford and Mr Yagong says PGV is vested, they don't have to follow it. We should have at that time have the amendment to say in black and white they are exempt. We had the understanding. It was clearly stated and all council members agreed.
Paleka: The hard thing for me is I support geothermal. But the law is the law. It is clear.
EDIT: quotes
Mahalo, ironyak. Politics at it's best. Seriously, my understanding is this is a safety issue (foremost), and secondly, a noise issue. PGV should be held accountable for the promises made, whatever those promises are.
Of note, Yagong was running for Mayor at the time (2012), and during Harry Kim's original testimony at the state level, so was he (at the twelfth hour). Harry Kim beat Yagong in the primary. (Sorry, OT, but relevant due to my comment about politics).
However, maybe a temporary "relocation program" can include alternate accomodations for nearby residents (who faint for days, can't breathe, can't sleep, etc.) for the duration of the drilling. Think Hilo Hawaiian or Naniloa will give PGV a "group rate"?
Just asking. [  ]
JMO.
ETA: Happen to agree with pbmaise on the statement above re: safety.
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Originally posted by pbmaise
Drilling MUST be nonstop for the safety and welfare of community. You cannot simply start stop this process and have a cup of coffee.
Sorry pbmaise, but drilling can be stopped as needed. Mike K has said so a couple times now when asked directly, and it was clearly done while drilling KS-10. PGV still completed the ~5000 ft well.
http://evols.library.manoa.hawaii.edu/bi...nology.pdf (Page 20-21)
"1-4 February, 1993
As a result of the large number of noise complaints and not being able to meet their noise limits, PGV suspended drilling operations during the nighttime hours."
"17-22 Feb., 1993
DOH and PGV receive a large number of noise complaints due to air drilling of well KS-10 which causes PGV to suspend drilling operations several nights."
It may not be preferable for both possible cost and safety reasons, and these stoppages are not the same as every night, but it can be done from a technology perspective FYI.
Wonder if there were safety vs noise level discussions about this at the time...
Mr Maise, love your slice of paradise. Spent a couple years of my youth and prime on those walls or fortresses you are referring to. Yes they were works of art, yet I had no vision of the finish back then(to young). The days were spent in the heat, with no easy jobs, we had some really cool guys who worked well together. We used slogans like, if one man can move the rock then two could lay it. Much of the face rocks we used had harvesting stories attached long before we had to pick the spots to place them. The hidden grout method, with those lava plates really shows the variety of colors and beauty within the lava rock.
Opihikao, how can this community come to some middle ground with geothermal, regarding this nighttime drilling headache we all are sharing in?.
Safety issues for everyone involved including community and drilling employees should be one of many priorities going forward.
The extra cost associated with complying to the county law by not drilling at night should not be of great concern to our very patient community, this should have been discussed and planned for by the geothermal lawyers and the drilling contractors giving their bids before arriving or starting. Tired of this very large Ormat corporation or company playing dumb or ignorant, while our communities aloha and good nature continue to be taken advantage of. As a community, once again we did nothing wrong to deserve the backlash of media negativity caused from their non compliance of Law.jmo.
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Ironyak states: quote:
Sorry pbmaise, but drilling can be stopped as needed. Mike K has said so a couple times now when asked directly, and it was clearly done while drilling KS-10. PGV still completed the ~5000 ft well.
http://evols.library.manoa.hawaii.edu/bi...nology.pdf (Page 20-21)
"1-4 February, 1993
As a result of the large number of noise complaints and not being able to meet their noise limits, PGV suspended drilling operations during the nighttime hours."
"17-22 Feb., 1993
DOH and PGV receive a large number of noise complaints due to air drilling of well KS-10 which causes PGV to suspend drilling operations several nights."
It may not be preferable for both possible cost and safety reasons, and these stoppages are not the same as every night, but it can be done from a technology perspective FYI.
Wonder if there were safety vs noise level discussions about this at the time...
(BBM to address)
You will note, at the last meeting, Mike Kaleikini also reiterated that stopping drilling enhances the risk for a problem.
(Second bold) Yes, there was in depth discussion and expert testimony from those in the field, not just PGV "experts"(discussions also included "cultural issues", which carried no concern regarding noise issue). One might want to delve into the written testimony at the time, which included DLNR, and other entities involved in the safety aspect.
The discussion and proof of safety concerns were disregarded as proven by the passing of 292. PGV was deemed "exempt", thus, didn't matter. Politics, again.
(Rehashing old crap, apologies to all who have been through this exercise for years. Too many experts; so little time.)
Safety issue should be foremost for all; apparently it is not.
JMO.
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