TMT groundbreaking - live

[dmbwest]

+1 Dakine .... People flying true colors in this thread.

aloha,
pog

[TomK]

Dakine,

""Narcissists do not consider the pain they inflict on others; nor do they give any credence to others' perceptions," says Dr. Les Carter in the book Enough of You, Let's Talk About Me (p. 9). "They simply do not care about thoughts and feelings that conflict with their own." Do not expect them to listen, validate, understand, or support you."

After reading that, I am curious to see your justification for regular observatory staff who, on their way up to the summit area, are told to stop, wind their windows down and are then interrogated about who they are and who they work for. Not only is this likely illegal, it's putting innocent people in a position where they feel uncomfortable, threatened and totally at unease when all they are trying to do is an honest day's work.

Incidentally, what checks are being done by the protesters to avoid them bringing invasive species to the summit and the area around the VIS? The observatories and MKSS have a very strict programme in place to prevent invasives getting to these areas. What are the protesters doing to avoid this problem?

[Punatic007]

you may be surprised, below the tarnished idealism there is likely more ugly baggage and poisonous double standards galore involved amongst the fervent bandwagon than you might suspect. - punamauka2
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Bingo! I recall reading a sociological study decades ago describing the local culture on the Big Island as declining culture in a downward spiral. Too isolated here and not getting the necessary stimulus for growth. Most ancestors were uneducated indentured servants doing manual labor thrust into the most remote island chain in the world offering no education.

This protest is a classic indicator of the status and location of that dreaded downward spiral, the real wound. Not the lame excuse of oh we are all Hawaiian victims, even though we are mostly chop suey descendants of migrant workers, and have been wronged and had our idyllic society taken away from us. Just plain Nutz.

[dmbwest]

Sorry Tom,

Imagine if you just blasted through and chase ensued .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AdrCxkpdDc

aloha,
pog

[ironyak]

Hey PunaMauka2 -
I'll try to ground some of our back-and-forth in the simple notion that I do not, and cannot, know the entirety of another person's perspective, so I do not try to speak for them. I find this to be true for people in the same country, community, family, or even household as me. As such, I consider it very likely to be true for people from different countries, cultures, and time periods.

This does not mean that these "other" views are esoteric or incomprehensible; but any understanding will not be found by projecting our own words and ideas, especially when based on the worst of assumptions.

Ultimately the speculation matters not regarding what pre-contact Hawaiians or King Kalakaua or would think of the TMT on Mauna Kea -
it matters what we all think should be done, which is figured out by allowing each perspective to speak for itself and actually listen to what is being said.

ETA (or not apparently - lets just fling crap at each other and shout about how advanced and superior we are - oh the irony)

[TomK]

Pog,

Thanks for the fun video, but no one is blasting through what has now become a check point. How much longer will it be before people are asked for their papers? People are being stopped and questioned on a public road. No due process and no probable cause. Perhaps this is what some want, but my WWII veteran father is turning in his grave right now.

[dmbwest]

Apologies to your Dad .... FWIW, I teach my son about your Dad with a tear in my eye. NEVER gonna be a generation like them.

[dmbwest]

Korean war vets @ the Parade.

[TomK]

My father went over on D-Day, but we're getting a little off-topic now.

[ironyak]

pog - got any more tunes to add? Between Rise Up, Burning Spear, the new wave revival, and HOTPE's jam band (Chasing Venus? Telescopic Troubadours? King K & The Observers? Savages in Shirts?), this thread might have the best soundtrack yet