TMT Work to Resume Says Ige!

[TomK]

After yesterday's debacle, it seemed most appropriate to receive a Nixle email today about East Hawaii's police officer of the month...

[beepbeep]

LOL, Tom

Lodestone, aaaaack!

Chunkster, "legal right to access" ... I had this sudden vision of a protester standing in the doorway of someone's home, claiming that the home was built on a sacred site...and the government declining to back up the homeowner to let them go in to cook their dinner.

Pam in CA

[PunaMauka2]

"Italics don't always show up for me so forgive imperfect quotation btw."

look at me, as someone who doesn't even bother with the caps button, i would be up there in the running as hypocrite of the month if i were to make an issue of perfect quotation punctuation.


about yesterday's response from the Gov's office announcing a halt in construction yet again, i share a feeling of dismay. though i've been *trying* to give the benefit of the doubt, for now. will just have to see how things develop.

[wailani]

THIS!

quote:

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Originally posted by SBH

IMHO the only construction workers that should be heading up to the summit at this time are those that would be deconstructing a decommissioned telescope before the TMT is built on a new pad with more road building.

I'm pro science, pro TMT actually. My uncle was VP of Lockheed's Space Division which built the Hubble Telescope and he was involved with the Apollo and Shuttle space programs. My grandfather pioneered the Skunk Works 70 years ago at Lockheed and was responsible for the SR-71 and U2 as Chief Inspector.

However, IMHO Mauna Kea should be limited to just a few and only the best, most advanced telescopes in the world with a maximum lease to operate for 25 years. Mauna Kea has always been a sacred connection to the universe, but it should not be covered like this...

https://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/maps/summit_map.shtml

I believe there needs to be respect for the Hawaiian culture and history, there is no evidence of that on Mauna Kea today. My first visit to the summit years ago I was surprised by how much the astronomical community has had their way with development all these years and I had an overwhelming feeling of disrespect for the Hawaiian culture up there. My wife did too. I wonder how many visitors feel the same way when they first visit? It must really be difficult for the Hawaiian people to go up there. There's nothing to honor this beautiful native culture and history of our beautiful island on Mauna Kea.

There are many places on earth people consider sacred. For me in my life it is Yosemite. For others it is the Grand Canyon or Waimea Canyon or Mauna Kea. If people did not consider such places sacred they would be ruined and not preserved for future generations.

The only other construction I would support is to build a Mauna Kea Hawaiian Cultural Center across the road from the visitors center and up hill a bit, but not at the summit, to honor the culture and history of the Hawaiian people on Mauna Kea. Crowdfunding sites could raise enough money to build it with world support and hundreds of volunteers, if not thousands, would want to help build it. The Merrie Monarch Festival could have an opening ceremony there at sunrise on Wednesday of Merrie Monarch week.

This is a tough situation for Gov. Ige, a compromise is needed rather than sending in the National Guard. To build TMT we need to fast track decommissioning and deconstruct some of those twentieth century telescopes as soon as possible and return the land to its orginal state.

Hopefully it will remain peaceful up there. I feel for the astonomers such as Tom caught in the middle who are just doing what they love, their passion, at the best place in the world to do astronomy. However, most of the astonomers now work remotely from Hilo and Waimea, not up on the summit. And they are working for all of mankind, for Hawaiians too.

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[TomK]

Pam - for the life of me I can't understand what prompted you to write this:

"Chunkster, "legal right to access" ... I had this sudden vision of a protester standing in the doorway of someone's home, claiming that the home was built on a sacred site...and the government declining to back up the homeowner to let them go in to cook their dinner."

You can't cook, or are you hiding something from me? []

[TomK]

The rocks weren't removed due to an "automatic responsibility". It took negotiations from MKSS and the observatories with the protesters to make it happen. Without that the rocks would still be there.

There's so much about the observatories keeping their promises, but not much about the protesters keeping theirs. In this case, they didn't, and the trust there was between the protestors and the current observatories has taken a hit.

[SBH]

quote:

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Originally posted by beepbeep

Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't it be hard to work with a telescope remotely if the telescope were not there?
Pam in CA

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Hi Pam, my point was that today there are fewer astronomers driving up to the summit daily since they can operate remotely on a desktop. Less traffic, less impact on Mauna Kea.

The future of astronomy is space based telescopes, so there will come a day again when there are no telescopes on Mauna Kea, some of us may see it in our lifetime, so this is just a temporary argument.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

The future of astronomy is space based telescopes, so this is just a temporary argument.

But a necessary argument because who knows when we have the resources to launch a fleet of space based telescopes?

I have been watching an older BBC program on Netflix called Horizon. One episode, From Here To Infinity, takes place largely on Mauna Kea. Someone had an idea for finding supernova more efficiently. His work depended on getting a couple of nights on the Keck Telescope, which as explained in the program is extremely difficult to procure. There are very few telescopes, and a lot of people who wish to use them. The astronomers we keep waiting could be a few hours or nights away from a great discovery, as happened in the program.

[Guest]

O.K Ted, you just wrote about very important truths or facts about the situation that has been growing atop our sacred maunakea. Location, location, location, and our big island of Hawaii's people own it in the astronomy world(maunakea). Chile is getting like three of these TMT alike projects in the next decade, and those Chilean mountains will never look the same again. The soon to be replaced scientists or astronomer's atop the summit of maunakea do not care about or respect maunakea and its rich history with its native people, jmo. Our county and state cares to much about its surplus revenues or bottom dollar, and not enough about the people they are representing today or in the immediate future.


Just a few reacurring thoughts here. Maybe by halting this TMT project now and rebuilding the trusts, also by decommissioning most of the soon to be outdated telescopes at the top of maunakea would improve this escalating situation? In five or ten years wouldn't the best telescope location in the world still be the big islands mountain tops? Not long ago telescope projects were million dollar projects and promise, now they are billion dollar projects and promises, soon they could be Trillion dollar projects and realities. That are owned and operated by responsible business partners who understand and care about those who are sharing these incredible opportunities. Please stop stealing and selling our keiki of tomorrow short by allowing these few shinny pennies to replace our island people's aloha and love of life. Lots of Common sense, long range thinking, planning, and developing needs to be a few priorities moving forward,JMO.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Please stop stealing and selling our keiki of tomorrow short

Once again gypsy, I ask you, exactly HOW does the TMT steal and sell our keiki short by providing funds for their education that would otherwise not be there? The TMT gives the keiki MORE money, it doesn't take it away. People who are against the TMT are the ones who will take TMT funds away from our keiki if it isn't built. You understand that right?