Posts: 2,244
Threads: 396
Joined: Nov 2011
quote:
Originally posted by TomK
MK rangers' log since March. Interesting reading:
https://lintvkhon.files.wordpress.com/20...y-2015.pdf
It's available via this KHON news article:
http://khon2.com/2015/07/09/uh-details-s...-protests/
(With due respect to Mr. Tom) This report is inaccurate and incomplete on several levels (purposely), due to potential use in litigation. With today's tehnology, videos and pictures should be included as hard proof.
The media (with the exception of Hawaii News Now) is falling into the category of "propoganda" with this kind of reporting. Proof is in actual events, not opinion and surmising what transpires/transpired.
It is not true that "all is fair in love and war". A'ole.
Aloha kekahi i kekahi.
JMO.
Posts: 11,006
Threads: 749
Joined: Sep 2012
This report is inaccurate and incomplete on several levels (purposely)
opihikao, would you have a few examples of what is inaccurate or incomplete?
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
Posts: 2,244
Threads: 396
Joined: Nov 2011
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
This report is inaccurate and incomplete on several levels (purposely)
opihikao, would you have a few examples of what is inaccurate or incomplete?
Yes, several, in fact, many examples, HOTPE. Unfortunately, listing all of them would provoke further confrontation (and snark) from those who are against the protestors/protectors, of which, I choose not to get involved in here (on PW) any longer. Being a minority on this forum already has it's challenges, and my focus is finding balance, in truth from both sides.
It will all come out, through the continuation of this confrontation. My information came directly from DLNR peeps, who also "have a job to do", combined with information from protestors/protectors who will counter this report with "hard proof", perhaps even at today's hearing.
Lawyers will have lots of time and opportunity (on both sides) to argue the merit of such reports, and other issues boths sides will face in the coming days. This log report is manini compared to what lurks on the horizon, if this situation is not handled extremely carefully (again, on both sides).
JMO.
Posts: 11,006
Threads: 749
Joined: Sep 2012
Thanks opihikao,
I understand there are some things best left unsaid.
People will line up at the grill on a weekend barbeque for a hot dog, but if you try to explain to them how sausage is made, you're the bad guy, or gal.
It's often difficult for the average person to understand that human emotions, foibles and instincts play into any confrontational situation, on both sides. I've been behind the scenes often enough to know that's part of human nature. But you're right, there are people who would like to believe we are at our best 100% of the time, and one slip because you're tired, or sick, or just had enough to deal with on that particular day is all that's required to brand a person as "bad" or "crazy" from that point on. If it fits a narrative, and an opinion can be formed, there's no need to pay attention any more, because you "know" what that person, or that group is like.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
Posts: 2,244
Threads: 396
Joined: Nov 2011
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
Thanks opihikao,
I understand there are some things best left unsaid.
People will line up at the grill on a weekend barbeque for a hot dog, but if you try to explain to them how sausage is made, you're the bad guy, or gal.
It's often difficult for the average person to understand that human emotions, foibles and instincts play into any confrontational situation, on both sides. I've been behind the scenes often enough to know that's part of human nature. But you're right, there are people who would like to believe we are at our best 100% of the time, and one slip because you're tired, or sick, or just had enough to deal with on that particular day is all that's required to brand a person as "bad" or "crazy" from that point on. If it fits a narrative, and an opinion can be formed, there's no need to pay attention any more, because you "know" what that person, or that group is like.
Aloha, HOTPE, mahalo for the reasoned response (again). Much aloha to you. Of the "three sides" to this story, the truth remains in the middle.
I'm watching the DLNR meeting, and already it's tenuous...Akua will guide them with grace and dignity is my continued hope.
JMO.
Posts: 1,975
Threads: 47
Joined: Jul 2012
Good points Opihikao. Obviously very bias, inaccurate, and misleading reading material provided by Tomk. So many problems with those reports that its not worth the time to entertain. Everyone is a visitor to the summit of mauna wa kea, no one lives there. The visitor center itself is intrusive to the sensitivity of the given environment, not only the protectors site. Sad that we have to get use to or worry about leaks of fuel, oil, mercury, other chemicals, and human waste atop such a Mountain.
The many protection changes, should encourage further world recognition of our Mauna wa kea and its now even richer history. Providing a stable future without the Additional developments of such environmentally changing projects like the TMT is possible, jmo. Plenty of space on this planet and beyond, just not on so many native peoples Piko please. In my opinion again only, The animosity, pain, and racial tension being caused by the way some projects (TMT) are done here in hawaii is not worth the promises, special race money, and risks. Its like creating or asking for another 50 years of kill haole days for our keiki's in our promoted poor segregated educational system. The continued disrespect of the Hawaiian PEOPLES believes, culture, and ways of living can and should change.
P.S. I Am not against science or the TMT project. I am against the cheap, ignorant, and desecrating ways they are continually pushed here in our islands. Jmo, the TMT project and employees should not have more rights than our future generations. Or be escorted up our mountain by county officers, DLNR, and our rarely seen department of Ag?
Posts: 11,006
Threads: 749
Joined: Sep 2012
Obviously very bias, inaccurate, and misleading reading material provided by Tomk
gypsy,
Tom only provided a link to official reports by the rangers, as well as a link to a TV news story about the reports. He didn't write them or provide them.
Now if you would really like to read some biased, inaccurate, and misleading posts get back to me. I think I can point you in the right direction...
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
Posts: 1,440
Threads: 4
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,151
Threads: 73
Joined: Mar 2007
Here are some facts as I understand them. If any of these are lies or distortions please explain how.
1. It is already illegal to block the access road to the summit.
2. It is already illegal to camp in the area where the protesters have camped.
3. It is already illegal to move stones onto the access road.
4. The TMT has completed a tough seven year legal permitting process and passed consequent court challenges.
5. TMT has been prevented from starting their legally sanctioned construction by illegal acts.
Now some may contend that their version of morality/spirituality trumps the law, but that doesn't change the law. The proposed new DNLR regulations are nonsense and the hearings an arena for nonsense. The laws on the books cover the situation well enough. It is the lack of backbone on the enforcement end that is the real problem here.
|
