Lets start an owner/builder topic

[Lee G]

Aloha Guys,
Good topic and I love to talk building.
HADave has excellent advice and speaks with experience. The main question you need to ask yourself is Do I want to go permitted or unpermitted? Some will have no choice in the matter and will have to go permitted due to location of their lot, for example our house we are building in Ainaloa sub division would be impossible to build unpermitted due to the CC&R and it's pretty well enforced. Ajit your 3 acre parcel would be a prime example of being able to build unpermitted due to the size and heavy foilage of the property. On the East side (Puna) your main concern is keeping dry from the rain, You could build very inexpensively a covered structure with screened in walls and off the ground post & pier style. probably a 14 ft x 24 ft structure could be built for less than $10,000. You cannot get even temp power now without a building permit so you would have to go all solar. Catchment water and cesspool and you got a simple home. Figuire about $4,000 - $5,000 for a road and clearing a house pad. I Do not think much of these cabin kit homes? why? pay a middleman just draw out a simple plan and go down to Home depot buy the lumbar and build it. If you have a wife will she go along with roughing it? Most won't !
more later.
Lee

[HADave]

LG buddy, got a question for ya, I presume you are still working as an electrician, yes? How much time before you can apply for your license. Doesn't the state require you work under someones elses license for a year or two. Then again it wasn't residential electrical work you did was it. Anyway maybe you already know of those licensed who are willing to work with owner builders that are looking to save some money and time I'd be willing to pay a fair premium and subject my work to inspection by the license holder, any thoughts? I've found 1 guy from Kona, Hart Electric he advertises in the Tribune. Like to find a local guy, in Puna you know keep your money close to home sort of thing.

We should be pretty close to each other within a few miles, we will be around the lower end of D road in H. Acres come April/May

[adias]

Hi Lee,

We’ll probably go via the permitted route although I realize it’s more expensive and time consuming. What I am having trouble getting my arms around is what does it really cost to build a permitted house $25K, $50K, $100K? and where are the costs distributed?

I guess the answer is it depends, since there are so many variables involved. If you hire a GC, one would agree on the cost based on per square foot? Last I heard was something like $100-$125.

However for simplicity sake, in order to establish a baseline cost, lets assume the minimalist permitted dwelling (ie what would Henry David Thoreau build in Puna), where you are your own GC and will buy the material and hire subs to do all the work. (Based on postings, I assume a permitted structure must be at least 800sf)

What would the approximate cost for labor and material be for the following? Feel free to add/subtract and make any assumptions appropriate. Quick and dirty 5-minute estimate is fine, since you’ve been there and done it.

Permitting process
Draftsperson/architecture costs
Clearing/house pad
Post and pier Foundation
Water catchments
Plumbing
Electrical
Roof
Framing
Interior
Cesspool/sewer
Floor
Bathroom
Kitchen appliance
Doors/windows
Anything else I missed

Mahalo,
Ajit


Edited by - adias on 11/12/2005 19:03:57

[Rob Tucker]

There are hundreds of "what if" questions when it comes to estimating costs of construction. I have been in the business over 30 years and feel there are no simple answers to these issues. I also believe it is much better for people to do their own research and come up with numbers that make sense to them in lieu of depending on word of mouth experiences which may or may not be directly on target.

To the purpose of estimating I would suggest that the construction industry is second, perhaps, only to the auto industry to the degree it is studied and tracked as a basic economic indicator. The data is out there.

There are several very excellent estimating books which can provide a remarkably accurate gage on costs for every item of construction in every zip code in the country. As an owner builder they can also show you what your labor is worth - trade by trade.

"Means Construction Estimator" is one such book. Another is published by Craftman Book Company and is called "2005 National Construction Estimator". These and others are available from any contractor's book store. They can be ordered by phone or over the internet. They all have the data in CD format too.

I believe anyone intending to pursue an owner/builder path should own one of these books. Spend the money. Research and then compare to local quotes. These are not Bibles - just very good, thoroughly researched facts.

When I was contracting I would regularly buy one of these for my clients so they could stay up late at night pondering the cost varibles of sinks, faucets or whatever.

I don't suggest that the topic is not a good one for conversation...just that if you really want to know the answers- do the homework, then compare notes with folks.

Trying to be helpful, Aloha

Chairman, Punaweb Committee, MSPA

Edited by - Rob Tucker on 11/12/2005 19:40:59

Edited by - Rob Tucker on 11/12/2005 20:04:53

[toucano]

Another thing to seriously consider when thinking about building something unpermitted is how it might limit the resale value.

I don't think that many conventional lenders would be willing to include the value of an unpermitted structure when deciding on what a piece of property is worth if someone wants to buy it and needs to finance. I'm sure a couple of calls to lenders there would get you an answer to that question.

If that were the case, it seems like you would probably need to be willing to carry a contract for part of the selling price.

When I was there, I saw many property listings that described a property as having a structure that was permitted but "never finaled". It looks like some people did/do make the initial building permit application (perhaps to get power and "look" legitimate", but then for whatever reason (perhaps actually building non-code compliant) the final inspection was never made.

[David D]

Hi Rob,

I’ve checked out the estimator books you listed on Amazon. The Means Construction Estimator runs about $70.00 and the 2005 National Construction Estimator about $50 - $55. So, while not really that expensive, they’re not cheap (If that makes sense!), which one is more user friendly for the novice and /or the most bang for the buck?

David D

[Rob Tucker]

The latest books are not cheap although I still recommend them as good investments. My preference is the National Construction Estimator for ease of use.

While these books are updated annually they do not become obsolete yearly. Any book will be effective for a number of years unless there is rampant inflation.

While the 2006 book might be $70 - the 2005 book might, if still in stock at a contractor's books store, sell for $25. The book seller might prefer to sell you the more expensive one but if you ask they will also be happy to off load last years book.

I just checked out the Craftsman site:
http://www.craftsman-book.com/

They have a free trial where you can download the 2005 estimator and try it for 30 days. Not much to lose there.

If anyone tries it out let me know what you think. I prefer a hard copy myself . It is much quicker to flip through a book than navigate software (for me).

Chairman, Punaweb Committee, MSPA

Edited by - Rob Tucker on 11/13/2005 17:40:31

[G. Leis]

The '06 edition is $52.50 + $7.95 shipping here: http://www.electrical-contractor.net/The..._Intro.htm

aloha,
Gene

[wyatt]

Flew over two week ago to get paperwork started on house. Plans submitted This past Mobday.
the wait begins. We did purchase our water catchment tank,cover,uv,fiters and pump.
10,000. gallons (minimum for fire insurance)
hoping to begin early next year.

[Lucy]

<You cannot get even temp power now without a building permit so you would have to go all solar.>
Or is it an option instead of solar to just not get the home finaled which costs more to do? (more inspections, filing etc. If you have a temporary power pole, it costs a lot more for electricity though too.
The other consideration in all of this is insurance, and if you want it. Insurance company may need for it to be finaled so they know it is up to code and won't burn down, etc.
There have been some "homes" made of an steel framed aluminum siding, like a machine shop type looking structure, which would be very econmical and pretty bug proof. Put more windows, and even big garage doors on for great ventilation. Don't cost so much to make.
Anyone ever do any of these? I have seen some on the MLS there. Of course the wives may not like this idea at all either.


Having another Great day in Paradise, Wherever that Maybe!