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Sigh. It's the Big Lie again. I don't know why the following keeps being used as some argument against the observatories, but it's been refuted so many times I really do suspect it's deliberate. Perhaps reality simply does not support some people's agenda, so repeat enough times until it becomes an accepted fact.
"If the KECK facility is costing investigators $50,000 a night and the TMT is an order of magnitude bigger, and one can expect it will cost astronomers that much more, then we're talking about what? 25 million plus a year in revenue? So making it sound like the TMT is some little ol' non-profit is a weak argument. And besides, if viewing time on the TMT is going to be so awesome they'll be able to charge whatever they want."
The observatories do not make money. No astronomer is charged a fee for using one of the telescopes for their science project. The costs being quoted are the operating costs for the observatory. That is paid for by the partners that fund an observatory. In most cases that's government-funded research councils and universities. There is no additional charge made to astronomers using the telescopes, there are no profits made. If there is any money left over at the end of the financial year, that money either gets sent back, used to help fund operations for the next year or used for instrument development depending on what the funding agencies decide.
The financial statements for the observatories are online and available to all, but I'm so fed up with these repeated lies I will ask those making them to do a little research of their own for a change. Can't see it happening, but that's their choice. Getting a little fed up helping lazy and dishonest people.
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You mean the objects being observed don't pay for the privilege? And here I was going to suggest you hit Pluto up for some cash; it's getting a lot of publicity right now.
Pam in CA
Pam in CA
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"From there, what I've read, little was spent by the university for environmental impacts which was found to be inadequate by a state audit, as well as the enormous amounts of money collected for time, such as $12 Million paid by Yale for 15 days at one of the telescopes. Why not get an agreement to receive a percentage of all the leased time? The public should also get a full accounting on every telescope up there since it is state conservation land."
Keck have their financial statements online, it doesn't take a genius to find them, and no, Yale didn't pay $12 million for 15 days at an observatory on MK. I strongly suggest you do a little fact checking, and if you really aren't being driven by some agenda, ask questions rather than making completely inaccurate claims. However, I think the horse has bolted.
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Newgirl,
I could be wrong, but to me it seems like you have made up your mind on the TMT issue.
Now, if you want to move on to OHA, have at it. Seems to be in need of organization as well as accountability to the Hawaiian people.
Pam in CA
Pam in CA
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cant get past the $1 million/yr? try for read this...
"...TMT business manager David Goodman says 20 percent to 30 percent of the $1.4 billion will be spent in Hawaii, with most of that on Hawaii Island. In round numbers, that means about $300 million to $400 million spent in the state from groundbreaking in April 2014 to completion in 2022. That includes an estimated 300 temporary construction jobs on Hawaii Island...."
via
http://www.hawaiibusiness.com/thirty-met...s-economy/
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save our indigenous and endemic Hawaiian Plants... learn about them, grow them, and plant them on your property, ....instead of all that invasive non-native garbage I see in most yards... aloha
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save our indigenous and endemic Hawaiian Plants... learn about them, grow them, and plant them on your property, ....instead of all that invasive non-native garbage I see in most yards... aloha
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fwiw the so called 'Hawaiians' you see today are not descendants of the first people to settle these islands ca400AD, they are descendants of the '2nd Wave' of people (from Tahiti) that came 800 years later. The first people that came were peaceful people from the Marquesas islands.... to the '2nd Wave' they (Marquesas Hawaiians) all became slaves, and sacrifice victims... they were known to the '2nd Wave' (Tahiti Hawaiians) as 'Menehune'...
NO, Menehune are NOT little cute brownies or elves you see on water bottles etc. that you go feed 1 shrimp ea to and they go happily make a fishpond/rockwall in one night BS, ...the Menehune were real people heavily exploited and killed off by the ancestors of the Hawaiians you see here today.... Menehune to the 2nd Wave were 'small in worth' NOT 'small in stature'.. the reason we see elf-like Menehune cartoon BS today was because the first haoles mistranslated this... but if the haole didnt write any of this down, No one would know anything factual (not heavily exaggerated folklore) about preKapu Hawaii
'Marquesas (Menehune) Hawaiians' 400AD
'Tahiti (current) Hawaiians' 1200AD
'Haole Hawaiians' 1778
Now... who has ENTITLEMENT to these Islands???? we know who ALWAYS thinks they ALL do... da 'Protectors' lol
aloha (haole born and raised and not moving to Vegas like 20,000 of da kooks)
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save our indigenous and endemic Hawaiian Plants... learn about them, grow them, and plant them on your property, ....instead of all that invasive non-native garbage I see in most yards... aloha
******************************************************************
save our indigenous and endemic Hawaiian Plants... learn about them, grow them, and plant them on your property, ....instead of all that invasive non-native garbage I see in most yards... aloha
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"...TMT business manager David Goodman says 20 percent to 30 percent of the $1.4 billion will be spent in Hawaii, with most of that on Hawaii Island. In round numbers, that means about $300 million to $400 million spent in the state from groundbreaking in April 2014 to completion in 2022. That includes an estimated 300 temporary construction jobs on Hawaii Island...."
http://www.hawaiibusiness.com/thirty-met...s-economy/
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I really hope that the unions are getting fed up with these delays and will start a protest on their own, against the protestors... Union construction people make really good money.
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Union construction people make really good money.
Standing along Saddle road with banners "PAY AREA STANDARD WAGES"...
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quote:
Originally posted by leilanidude
I really hope that the unions are getting fed up with these delays and will start a protest on their own, against the protestors... Union construction people make really good money.
In 1973, 24% of all U.S. wage and salary workers were members of unions. Since then, organized labor participation has steadily declined. Over the past decade, nationwide union membership declined 7.1%.
Hawaii
> Pct. of workers in unions: 21.7%
> Union workers: 124,241 (23rd lowest)
> 10-yr. change in union membership: -11.6% (16th largest decline)
> Unemployment rate: 4.4% (9th lowest)
Hawaii has one of the larger shares of construction workers in the country, with 7% of the labor force employed in the industry, the 11th most in the country. Construction workers in the state are also much more likely than average construction worker nationwide to be part of a union. While nationally less than 15% of construction workers were union members, nearly 39% of Hawaii’s construction workers were unionized, higher than in any state. Union membership in Hawaii was also above average in manufacturing employment. More than 21% of workers in the sector were unionized, compared to just 9.7% of manufacturing workers nationwide.
http://247wallst.com/special-report/2015...-unions-5/
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Here's the article where I found most of the information.
http://honoluluweekly.com/feature/2011/0...-cash-cow/
I really don't have any opinion about good/bad of TMT. I do have opinions about indigenous people and their fate when they're overrun with newcomers.
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