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I wasn't trying to say they aren't humans. : /
They definitey deserve acknowledgement. I think thats exactly what they got.
Yeah, the plank just a metaphor for what you said above. Allthough somewhat humorous one due to your edging away from the line of reasoning that is generally respected by the pro supporters posting here, as well as the pirate reference which you obviously got : ) lol
And yeah, english in general is western speak. Not really sure what all that other stuff you posted meant. Sorry, I don't have the inclination to look it all up.
I agree that generally when something starts to 'get to you' its best to distance yourself for a time. Not healthy to let other people bother you !
But I agree with what I interpret you as saying 'no more mr. nice guy' be forward don't tip toe about. That said I was just confused by your indication of those three individuals! I don't see your support of them as beneficial to your stance in much the same way supporting the guy who threatened to local highschooler astronomer's life would not seem to be beneficial to your stance.
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some individuals will claim to be disrespected when they do not always get the extra attention or special treatment they feel they deserve by birthright.
some will characterize social norms and laws designed to eliminate discrimination and promote equality as discriminatory and oppressive if their expectation of special privilege is not met.
some will insist on one standard of fairness and consideration for those who show support for their beliefs while applying a different standard to those who may not.
Nothing really new here or unexpected by the observatory community? This current situation and protest atop maunakea is very similar to the Mt Graham situation for the last 30 years. Instead of red squirrels, apache culture and much more needing protection, we have the flightless wekiu bug, Hawaiian culture, and much more at stake. On the N.A mountain(mt Graham) a woman chained herself to a 35 foot homemade tripod as a way to show her disproval of this telescope project. Here on Maunakea we have families arresting families and one man completely undressed himself over this project.
Unfortunately we have a standoff here on our mountain of peace and calm. It looks like this situation is going as planned and expected by the now professional oppressors? JMO here, Our warriors standing guard of further desecration of maunakea could and should learn a lot from the war on the Indians culture atop Mt Graham. They (the apache) have been somewhat successful stalling the building of the largest scope, which in turn they hope will bring down the smaller and soon to be out dated telescopes.
The division caused to the people of these islands is starting now over this TMT project, what things could be done by both sides of this standoff to help with the dividing of the people? Could the TMT officials look into other possible sites atop Maunakea, or preferably elsewhere in the world? Could the protesters stop gathering in numbers uncontrollable by police or governor? Really common ground and trust need to reform quickly before we possible have a decade or two with plenty of unneeded racial and economical animosity replacing some of the islands remaining 10% of native peoples Aloha, Jmo.
P.S. New job market? Maunakea rangers and added security are now future jobs for our top graduating seniors, if not qualified by name or blood to be police or county employees of course. I predict maunakea Rangers will be granted more police duties and benefits like new 4-wheel drive trucks and high powered stun guns to control the Hawaiian activists by years end?
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lost patience with a Hawaiian "leadership" that can't bring itself to confront the extremist elements who are increasingly dominating all discourse on things Hawaiian
I find this statement offensive.
It is not the fault of the Hawaiians that our Western culture has forced them behave in this manner.
Look no further than the "extremist elements dominating all discourse" on GMOs, gay rights, marijuana legalization ... all the way down to the local level NIMBYs.
Can any of these groups sit down and have rational discussions that lead to compromise? No, they're all too busy filing legal action while waving flags for the media, because that's how things are done in America now.
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"Could the TMT officials look into other possible sites atop Maunakea, or preferably elsewhere in the world?"
They did. It took 7 years. Now that that's done it will be built where it was approved to be built.
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quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
lost patience with a Hawaiian "leadership" that can't bring itself to confront the extremist elements who are increasingly dominating all discourse on things Hawaiian
I find this statement offensive.
It is not the fault of the Hawaiians that our Western culture has forced them behave in this manner.
Look no further than the "extremist elements dominating all discourse" on GMOs, gay rights, marijuana legalization ... all the way down to the local level NIMBYs.
Can any of these groups sit down and have rational discussions that lead to compromise? No, they're all too busy filing legal action while waving flags for the media, because that's how things are done in America now.
I find that the above statement hits the nail on the head, regardless of whether it is offensive or not. As for Hawaiians being forced to behave a certain way, that does not ring true with me. It seems more likely that if you sent them back in a time machine, Kamehameha would have killed them for dissenting in the manner that you allege that they are forced to do today.
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It seems more likely that if you sent them back in a time machine, Kamehameha would have killed them for dissenting
If time travel were possible, I would bring cloaking technology from the future back to pre-contact Hawaii.
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Gypsy, Da Kine and Southermost have clashed with me because we disagree on the TMT issue. But I respect everyone as a fellow human being. I also respect the Hawaiian people, Hawaiian culture, and kupuna. I wish there were some wise kupuna who could mediate this dispute, which is about so much more than a telescope.
I just believe it is not fair to block the TMT after an agreement which took seven years of effort has been granted. I think telescope leases should also be honored.
But, when leases are up, or when a new telescope is proposed, that is when I think protesters shoul be ready, organized, peaceful, but clear about what is wanted.
That is only about the telescopes. Agreements must be honored. But the non- telescope issues should be separately but thoroughly addressed. I am the first to agree that these are very important.
I also think the visitor's center should be respected and allowed to open, and serious discussion of a Hawaiian cultural center should begin.
Hoping aloha spirit will prevail.
Pam in CA
Pam in CA
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As for Hawaiians being forced to behave a certain way
Perhaps not so much "forced" as ... they have "adapted" to the "American Way".
Until recently the Hawaiians held true to their native beliefs.
Look where that got them.
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kalakoa: "It is not the fault of the Hawaiians that our Western culture has forced them behave in this manner."
speaking of hypothetical time machines and the actual present, please define "the Hawaiians".
